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For Sale: 50,000 Bitcoins

usmarshals.gov

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Re: For Sale: 50,000 Bitcoins

#131

Post by patio11 »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #72
mrb wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot more than 177k BTC changed hands yesterday. You don't see it on the block chain because most of it is transacted off-chain: 788k BTC were sold and bought on Bitcoin exchanges in the last 24 hours - http://bitcoinity.org/markets/list?currency=ALL&span=24h So 50k BTC is really nothing (~6%) compared to what the market usually handles every day.

> because most of it is transacted off-chain Does this come with risk? Shouldn't all transactions be on the chain?

Bitcoiners strike a balance with on-chain and off-chain transactions because Bitcoin has several properties which make it undesirable for many sorts of transactions. A short list would include 20~60+ minutes for transaction capture, lack of a way for merchants to initiate transactions (the dominant method in B2C commerce in the US), user-unfriendliness of much of the ecosystemic software, etc.

Re: For Sale: 50,000 Bitcoins

#132

Post by dwaltrip »

mrb wrote: post #68
lucb1e wrote: post #56

For scale, this is not even a day's worth of normal transactions. Yesterday about 177000 BTC was sent across the network, and that wasn't a big day.

A lot more than 177k BTC changed hands yesterday. You don't see it on the block chain because most of it is transacted off-chain: 788k BTC were sold and bought on Bitcoin exchanges in the last 24 hours - http://bitcoinity.org/markets/list?currency=ALL&span=24h So 50k BTC is really nothing (~6%) compared to what the market usually handles every day.

I wouldn't blindly trust the volume from the Chinese exchanges (over 80% percent of the entire volume). Some of them have zero fees, so you can essentially "sell" to yourself for free and generate fake volume.

Re: For Sale: 50,000 Bitcoins

#133

Post by saraid216 »

virtue3 wrote: post #120
EpicEng wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, in other words, only your own biases and preconceived notions. Edit: I'd be curious to hear the side of you down voters. Do you have a legitimate gripe with the accuracy of what i said, or do you just blindly believe that everything the government does is evil?

So, in other words, only _your_ _own_ biases and preconceived notions. Edit: I'd be curious to hear the side of you down voters. Do you have a legitimate gripe with the accuracy of what i said, or do you just blindly believe that everything the government does is _for_the_greater_good_? Your argument is just shallow and not very constructive and having it reversed should make that somewhat apparent. Personally, the g…

It's nice to know that "the general consensus" is an arbiter of logic and reason now and anyone who does not conform to this opinion is on the other side of a false dichotomy who must be shown the error of their ways.

Re: For Sale: 50,000 Bitcoins

#134

Post by leogiertz »

paulsutter wrote: post #127
whyenot wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone seems to be going off on a tangent about civil forfeiture. From the order: http://www.usmarshals.gov/assets/2014/dpr-bitcoins/order.pdf WHEREAS, the Government and Ulbricht agree that, due to the volatile market for bitcoins, the Computer Hardware Bitcoins risk losing value during the pendency of the forfeiture proceedings; WHEREAS, the Government and Ulbricht agree that the Computer Hardware Bitcoins are to…

The IRS will go after him for capital gains tax after the sale. The document makes no mention of a provision for him to pay his taxes due from the proceeds of the sale.

Wouldn't that be good though? Then he's free to buy property and other things with his "laundered" money if he's cleared from any wrongdoing.

It's not that easy to convert a large amount of bitcoins into money that you can use effectively.

Re: For Sale: 50,000 Bitcoins

#135

Post by rsynnott »

jnaglick wrote: post #114
duskwuff wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangent: Does anyone know if it's standard practice for these sorts of arrangements to be made if other goods become part of forfeiture proceedings? (For instance, shares of a volatile mutual fund. Or, to take it out of the financial realm entirely, a truckload of perishable vegetables.)

I would guess that there has never been a case of a criminal investing their ill-gotten gains into "a truckload of perishable vegetables."

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/garlic-man-begle...

Massive tax fraud case involving Secret Garlic; it happens :)

Re: For Sale: 50,000 Bitcoins

#136

Post by jpindar »

DickingAround wrote: post #107
sneak wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many DPR-related bitcoins that they were unable to access. Fear not. This was not "half the point of bitcoins" - the intent of the bitcoin release is only hinted at by Satoshi. Any point you are asserting here is pure speculation. However, if you think this is a valuable property, a so-called "brainwallet" provides exactly this safety. They've been around for ages. No moving of coins required.

Where there really coins they didn't get? Source? (Not to dispute the claim, just interested) About it being half the point: Perhaps not stated explicitly, but he knew what he was doing by not baking in a government back door. From the whitepaper: "any two willing parties to transact directly with each other" I'm probably not getting the joke, but are there people who memorize their secret keys? I've never looked to…

No joke. Brainwallets use keys derived from a passphrase. Of course the passphase has to be reasonably long and something no one would ever guess, but even a randomly generated passphrase is easier to memorize than a long string of characters.

Re: For Sale: 50,000 Bitcoins

#137

Post by gambiting »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #65
smokeyj wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to dismiss the noble courts of sillysaurus, but I'd like to see Ross convicted in the court of law . With due process and all that jazz.

Apparently we're not going to have a rational debate about this topic, which is unfortunate. For example, my comment had nothing to do with whether Ulbrict was convicted. It was strictly about asset forfeiture, which is a completely separate concept from having a trial. But of course a sarcastic one-liner is the most upvoted rebuttal. Ulbrict is being given due process. He is also being given a fair trial. My observa…

Because acting on observations such as yours is directly against the spirit of due process and lawful justice. Even if it's "obvious" he could not have obtained those bitcoins legally, that does not change the fact that the law enforcement should not touch it until the verdict.

I don't know how to make it any clearer, either you understand that having a lawful society requires following the law to the letter even if something is painfully obvious, or you don't.

Re: For Sale: 50,000 Bitcoins

#138

Post by bengali3 »

leogiertz wrote: post #134
paulsutter wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The IRS will go after him for capital gains tax after the sale. The document makes no mention of a provision for him to pay his taxes due from the proceeds of the sale.

Wouldn't that be good though? Then he's free to buy property and other things with his "laundered" money if he's cleared from any wrongdoing. It's not that easy to convert a large amount of bitcoins into money that you can use effectively.

IANACPA I believe that's a nice advantage of bitcoin? I would think individuals could fly to the caymans to cash out and avoid tax?

Re: For Sale: 50,000 Bitcoins

#139

Post by NeutronBoy »

megablast wrote: post #129
logician76 wrote: post #125

It would be cool if bitcoins seized in one crime would be compensating bitcoins stolen in another crime: Mt.Gox ..

It is not the governments role to replace the stuff that was stolen from you. That is what insurance is for.

Especially Bitcoins, of which a key 'feature' is 'No Government Intervention required'.
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