New Search Strategy for Firefox • Hacker News Board

Re: New Search Strategy for Firefox

#171

Post by FeeTinesAMady » Wed, Nov 19, 2014, 11:20 PM UTC

nnethercote wrote: post #134

Ntrails wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if, and this is crazy I know, you needed an explicit action to track me instead of relying on users not knowing such a thing exists to avoid.

You're going to love Firefox's new Tracking Protection feature, which is currently under development: http://blog.mozilla.org/nnethercote/2014/11/12/quantifying-t... It allows you to block things coming from known tracking domains, giving better privacy and faster page loads on many sites.

Why would anyone need that when there's ghostery and noscript? Furthermore, what benefits does that feature have over ghostery? Seems like ghostery blocks more than that feature does, which makes it seem like that's a waste of effort.

I suppose it might have some use if it's actually on by default, but they haven't stated that it will be, and if it isn't on by default, then anyone who would know to turn it out would be able to install ghostery anyway.

Re: New Search Strategy for Firefox

#172

Post by gcp » Wed, Nov 19, 2014, 11:20 PM UTC

jimmaswell wrote: post #96

Is this why Firefox mobile started using Yahoo as the default and I can't change it? I tried changing it and it just kept using Yahoo.

Yes and no. Changeable search engines were obviously a prerequisite for this kind of deal, and Yahoo was one of the first ones to offer the needed APIs (and IIRC, over HTTPS which was required by Mozilla).

Changing search engines can be done via Customize->Search->Installed search engines. Click the one you want and you'll get a popup offering to remove it or make it the default.

Re: New Search Strategy for Firefox

#173

Post by gsnedders » Wed, Nov 19, 2014, 11:22 PM UTC

mbrubeck wrote: post #151

enneff wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is why Google built Chrome. Seriously? Do you remember what browsers were like before Chrome?

I'm a Firefox user and contributor, but I'm happy to agree that Chrome advanced (and continues to advance) the state of the art in all sorts of ways. But that still doesn't explain why Google thinks that building a web browser is an important business for Google to be in, especially at an annual cost of hundreds of millions of dollars. To answer that question, you do need to look at how it intersects with Google's ot…

…and with a bigger marketing budget than pretty much any other browser (even if you discount all the marketing on Google IP that isn't for sale to start with). If it were just about pushing the browser market forward, it long ago reached a point of having enough marketshare to do that. If they were to target specific countries where, e.g., IE6 remains a major browser, that'd be pushing the market forward. But they aren't.

Re: New Search Strategy for Firefox

#174

Post by agersant » Wed, Nov 19, 2014, 11:25 PM UTC

throwawaymoz wrote: post #82

dragonwriter wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For the record, Google made billions off being Firefox's default search engine. They paid Firefox $300mil a year for three years, but that was only a small fraction of how much Google profited from Firefox searches. Not sure if it's still true, but three years ago they made more from Firefox than they did from Chrome. Google doesn't really make money from Firefox or Chrome (the browser), per se (except insofar as C…

Don't forget that Chrome users are more tech savvy on average than Firefox users, meaning they click ads less.

Do you have anything other than anecdotal evidence to support this claim?

Re: New Search Strategy for Firefox

#175

Post by fhd2 » Wed, Nov 19, 2014, 11:25 PM UTC

venomsnake wrote: post #139

kibwen wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also see FirefoxOS as Mozilla's long-shot hedge against the spectre of walled gardens. With first iOS and then WinRT disallowing third-party browsers, a world dominated by locked-down platforms would be a death sentence for Firefox.

I always wondered why no one tried lawsuit on that topic in Europe for iOS devices? It is arguably worse than the IE situation (you used IE just once to get a real browser), but right now Safari is only game in town for no technical reason and everyone is cool with that. No addons, no adblock ...

I suppose that's fine legally unless you're a monopoly. Windows is (or was?). iOS, arguably, not really.

Re: New Search Strategy for Firefox

#176

Post by olssy » Wed, Nov 19, 2014, 11:26 PM UTC

mbrubeck wrote: post #70

nnethercote wrote: post #53

Some more details: * This is a new, more flexible partnership strategy. * Continuing the existing relationship with Google was an option, but Mozilla chose to end the Google relationship. * All the options Mozilla considered had strong, improved economic terms (but the concrete numbers are not public). Because all the options had improved economics, that allowed Mozilla to really consider the strategic outlook. * The…

Note: nnethercote is a Mozilla employee (as am I). These details are straight from the horse's mouth (dino's mouth?).

As long as the horse is in the house, has Mozilla ever given any thought to creating its own search service?

Re: New Search Strategy for Firefox

#177

Post by bjz_ » Wed, Nov 19, 2014, 11:26 PM UTC

kibwen wrote: post #72

It's always seemed as though Google's and Mozilla's relationship would weaken over the years, though honestly I expected Bing rather than Yahoo to be the one to step up and fill Google's shoes. Also surprising is that apparently Mozilla was the one to initiate the switch. As a Firefox user, all in all I'm rather pleased. I've just tried a few of my typical searches on Yahoo and though the expected links aren't the to…

As a long time Mozilla lover, I have been quite concerned about their dependence on Google for quite some time now. I'm really thankful that they have had the courage to cut ties. Must have been a scary decision.

Re: New Search Strategy for Firefox

#178

Post by gsnedders » Wed, Nov 19, 2014, 11:26 PM UTC

Yoric wrote: post #90

throwawaymoz wrote: post #67

(throwaway account) While I believe the party line is probably true ("Mozilla decided not to go with Google"), it's also disingenuous. Mozilla chose not to go with Google because Google wasn't willing to pay what they were before. They straight up told Mozilla this 3 years ago when they signed the billion dollar contract; Mozilla had 3 years to become profitable. That's why they switched focus to FirefoxOS; they thou…

Is there any monetary reason to pick many search providers instead of just Google? This is possible, your guess is as good as mine. Regardless, I believe that not going with Google is a very sound strategy. If Mozilla has the choice between an alliance with a competitor with overwhelming firepower and whose clear interest is making Mozilla obsolete and an underdog with an interest in growing along with Mozilla, why p…

It's worthwhile to note that Yandex are, in principle, also a competitor. (They ship their own branded version of Chromium; I'm not sure what level it's built at, whether it's just a different theme and some minor additions, or built from scratch on the Chromium Content API. It is, however, frequently out of date and with known security issues, le sigh…)

Re: New Search Strategy for Firefox

#179

Post by ryanhuff » Wed, Nov 19, 2014, 11:27 PM UTC

enneff wrote: post #131

DevX101 wrote: post #63

This is why Google built Chrome. Google's strategy has been to remove the layers between the user's intent to search and Google's own server. Every intermediate layer that Google does not control is a risk to their business. When viewed through these lens, many of the seemingly ancillary Google business units start to make strategic sense. Android (control the device), Chrome (control the browser), Fiber (control the…

> This is why Google built Chrome. Seriously? Do you remember what browsers were like before Chrome?

The state of the browser market provided Google the opportunity to be successful with controlling more of the distribution channel. Its clear corporate strategy that when you depend on a small number of others to deliver your product (search), you are in a weaker strategic position. Google offering a high quality browser helps reduce risk. The same goes for Android with mobile search, maps, etc.

Re: New Search Strategy for Firefox

#180

Post by mythmon_ » Wed, Nov 19, 2014, 11:27 PM UTC

joosters wrote: post #132

mbrubeck wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has been for the last three years, but Mozilla decided to go with Yahoo/Yandex/Baidu rather than renew the deal with Google. So Yahoo (and others) will replace Google as the main revenue source.

Have they disclosed the new financial terms of the agreement though? I'd be interested to see how the numbers have changed.

The only public numbers are from the the previous Google search deal (the one from 3 years ago). It will be a long time until the details of this new deal are public. In the mean time I (as a Mozilla employee) can say that all of the options Mozilla had for the new search deal were better economically than the now-ending Google deal. This was really nice, because Mozilla got to make a choice that wasn't about money, but was about strategy and what we want in the web instead.