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Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

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Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

#121

Post by mattgreenrocks »

famousactress wrote: post #9

The bummer is that the bullshit misogyny feels like it's been running pretty rampant for some time, though maybe it's only lately that we're seeing the sort of graduating class of this particular brand of ethically vapid growth-hacked shops seeing some success (Uber, Tinder, Genius...) I like making things, but the part of our industry that manages to sustain such an asshole-farm gets me wishing I'd chosen a differen…

SV currently has a culture of "making it," rather than "making." Until it flips back to the latter, it'll continue to be infested by people trying to get theirs at all costs.

Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

#122

Post by thrush »

001sky wrote: post #90
thrush wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really seems like your points were towards legislation that prevents Uber from operating as business where Taxis are the main competition, not other similar services like Lyft. Journalists cover lots of stories, and I think the one that I linked in the Verge is a great example of something Uber would not want released. $1M is also nothing compared to what they pay their lawyers to fight legal battles against Taxi…

They have to operate in a policy grey area. They don't need to operate in an ethical grey area. Mixing the two is bad for business.

I agree. The policy issue is between Taxis and existing legislation. The ethics issue is between Lyft. Taking a step back, this is one of the craziest market competitions that can exist, and it's going to be interesting to see how it plays out. Remember, Taxis didn't have nearly as fierce competition between themselves it reminds me of cable companies. Perhaps they'll eventually have to settle for different territories to manage.

Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

#123

Post by thrush »

res0nat0r wrote: post #104
ghshephard wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think close to 100% of successful entrepreneurs would agree with the statement "You can, and must break some rule, push the envelope, and engage in questionable behavior when building a company - the challenge is in always remembering where the line is, and never crossing it." Uber clearly crossed the line when their executives voiced out load their frustration with the media and then continued talking and imagined…

The report you are quoting from yesterday seems to be more Valleywag gossip talk for pageviews most likely taken out of context (look at all the internet rage it has generated just on this site) than actual evil wrongdoing.

Agreed. Besides, they've never acted upon those words. It was essentially a thoughtcrime.

Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

#124

Post by presty »

jboy wrote: post #14

OK, so it's obviously a little transparent of Thiel to say that Uber [a competitor to Lyft, a company in which he has invested] is "on the cusp" of going too far, but Airbnb [another company in which he has invested] has "a different feel" and is OK. But it's also a little ironic that the champion of "Competition is for losers", who says that monopolies can be a good thing for society [0], is against Uber trying thei…

Don't forget that Thiel is also an investor in Uber through Crunchfund.

Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

#125

Post by mathattack »

ivraatiems wrote: post #11

Notice the language here. He doesn't seem, at least from my reading, to be chastising Uber for doing things that are morally wrong. He's instead chastising them for doing morally wrong things and not pulling it off. For example: "Sometimes the people who break the rules win and sometimes they push it too far," implying that Uber could be doing wrong things in some more correct way and continue to thrive, and that the…

There is acceptable gray if you're willing to live within the consequences. Big companies never do work until the contract is signed. Smaller companies live within the ambiguity. ("If we mess up, we're out of business anyway.") Big companies may never sign someone who has a non-compete. Small companies take the risk. ("It's not enforceable")

If you cross too often and too far, that's when you get into trouble.

Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

#126

Post by uberuberuber »

More unethical than manufacturers of nuclear weapons components, missiles and drones?

Makes for a nice soundbite but I hope he doesn't actually believe this given Lockheed, Texas Instruments, General Dynamics, etc. are all a part of SV.

Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

#127

Post by neurotech1 »

ghshephard wrote: post #31
ivraatiems wrote: post #11

Notice the language here. He doesn't seem, at least from my reading, to be chastising Uber for doing things that are morally wrong. He's instead chastising them for doing morally wrong things and not pulling it off. For example: "Sometimes the people who break the rules win and sometimes they push it too far," implying that Uber could be doing wrong things in some more correct way and continue to thrive, and that the…

I think close to 100% of successful entrepreneurs would agree with the statement "You can, and must break some rule, push the envelope, and engage in questionable behavior when building a company - the challenge is in always remembering where the line is, and never crossing it." Uber clearly crossed the line when their executives voiced out load their frustration with the media and then continued talking and imagined…

"Breaking rules" is one thing. Showing completely immoral behavior is another.

Uber didn't "cross the line", they are miles off course on the wrong side.

Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

#128

Post by prawn »

res0nat0r wrote: post #111
prawn wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airbnb does have a different feel. As a user of the service, there are ways they could make it less frustrating (especially in big cities in peak times), but I never get the impression that they do anything but support their property owners and try to make them better at what they do. When I've had problems, they've solved them and given credit for replacement services. I haven't heard of Airbnb doing anything underh…

Except of course the whole let their users list properties they know are against the law thing. Which if they really wanted to ensure no listings that violated local ordinance were posted on the site they would go out of business.

Yes, that is the obvious parallel with Uber - I assumed that went without saying. I'm talking about how they work with their users and market themselves - there is a clear difference there between the two companies.

Most people aren't swearing off Uber because they are breaking into a regulated industry but because they're being dicks about it.

Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

#129

Post by thrush »

001sky wrote: post #90
thrush wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really seems like your points were towards legislation that prevents Uber from operating as business where Taxis are the main competition, not other similar services like Lyft. Journalists cover lots of stories, and I think the one that I linked in the Verge is a great example of something Uber would not want released. $1M is also nothing compared to what they pay their lawyers to fight legal battles against Taxi…

They have to operate in a policy grey area. They don't need to operate in an ethical grey area. Mixing the two is bad for business.

I'd like to completely retract my statement! Reading the Senator's letter (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8633683) put things in perspective for me. Forget bad for business, it's bad for human rights. Ethical grey area is an understatement.

Re: Peter Thiel: Uber is most ethically challenged company in Silicon Valley [video]

#130

Post by ghshephard »

gaius wrote: post #112
techdragon wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is in what is being broken. A rule can be some conventional wisdom that is wrong, where the rule breaker is innovating through the barrier of complacency or it can be an ethical or moral consensus, a social rule, they break that may or may not be right. And those are much more troublesome. The absolute vs relative ethics debate alone makes it a nightmare to begin with.

Let's not mince words - Uber is not a tech company, what is their unique and newly developed technology? They are exploiting a loophole and operating unlicensed minicabs, profiting from the arbitrage of lower costs of not having to comply with regulation. Why is anyone surprised that they have a generally fuzzy idea about "rules"? It is on the regulators to shut them down.

Let's not go overboard. Uber's real time tracking, checkin, and reservation of cars, in conjunction with dynamic surge pricing to guarantee there will always be a vehicle, is pretty damn innovative - when it works. I use Uber a lot, and in the bay area, it's world class in terms of providing time estimates of arrival. In Dubai - not so much.

So - yes, lots of missteps by Uber, particularly on the ethics front, but don't discount how they revolutionized the real time tracking/reservation of cars.

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