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Launching in 2015: A Certificate Authority to Encrypt the Entire Web

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Re: Launching in 2015: A Certificate Authority to Encrypt the Entire Web

#181
Looking at the spec [0] I'm concerned about the section on 'Recovery Tokens'.

"A recovery token is a fallback authentication mechanism. In the event that a client loses all other state, including authorized key pairs and key pairs bound to certificates, the client can use the recovery token to prove that it was previously authorized for the identifier in question.

This mechanism is necessary because once an ACME server has issued an Authorization Key for a given identifier, that identifier enters a higher-security state, at least with respect the ACME server. That state exists to protect against attacks such as DNS hijacking and router compromise which tend to inherently defeat all forms of Domain Validation. So once a domain has begun using ACME, new DV-only authorization will not be performed without proof of continuity via possession of an Authorized Private Key or potentially a Subject Private Key for that domain."

Does that mean, if for instance, someone used an ACME server to issue a certificate for that domain in the past, but then the domain registration expired, and someone else legitimately bought the domain later, they would be unable to use that ACME server for issuing an SSL certificate?

[0] https://github.com/letsencrypt/acme-spec/blob/master/draft-b...

Re: Launching in 2015: A Certificate Authority to Encrypt the Entire Web

#183

Whatever happened to http://www.cacert.org/ ?

is there a reason they don't use it on their own site ( https://cacert.org/ )?

They do. You just don't have their root installed so it gives an error. You can install their root here http://www.cacert.org/index.php?id=3

Re: Launching in 2015: A Certificate Authority to Encrypt the Entire Web

#184
post #150
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A self signed certificate warning means "Warning! The admin on the site you're connecting to wants this conversation to be private but it hasn't been proven that he has 200 bucks for us to say he's cool" no. It means "even though this connection is encrypted, there is no way to tell you whether you are currently talking to that site or to NSA which is forwarding all of your traffic to the site you're on". Treating…

> It's just the best that we currently have. No, I wouldn't say so. Having SSL is better than having nothing pretty much on any site. But if you don't want to pay $200 somebody for nothing , you would probably consider using http by default on your site, because it just looks "safer" to the user that knows nothing about cryptography because of how browsers behave. Which is nonsense. It's worse than nothing. And CA ar…

> And CA are not "authorities" at all. They could lie to you, they could be compromised.

Actually just read their terms of service, which may as well be summarised as "we issue certificates for entertainment purposes only".

Re: Launching in 2015: A Certificate Authority to Encrypt the Entire Web

#185
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's Encrypt is going to publish records of everything it signs, either with Certificate Transparency or some other mechanism. Browsers will be able to check any cert signed by the Let's Encrypt CA against the published list. If there's a discrepancy, that will be immediately detectable.

Out of curiosity, what if MITM says, "include me in this list for IP "? If the check is not done in a way that solves the byzantine generals problem, I don't see how this feature provides any more protection, other than one more hoop to jump through.

If you can corrupt both the authority signing the certificate and the authority signing the Certificate Transparency append-only log, you can successfully MITM a connection.

However, if the client is ever subsequently on a non-MITMed connection, it can detect the certificate disappearing from the append-only log - and the signed certificate and signed append-only log constitute irrefutable evidence that the two authorities were compromised.

As all legitimately issued certificates are in the Certificate Transparency logs, browser vendors can grandfather them in so they keep working after they drop the CA certificate from the trust root. This kills the CA.

This would give CAs the power to refuse requests from the NSA, because their hands are tied - no matter what coercion the NSA threatens, the CA can't issue an MITM certificate without getting shut down.

Obviously it remains to be seen whether this will work in practice.

Re: Launching in 2015: A Certificate Authority to Encrypt the Entire Web

#187
post #160
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self-signed certificates are still better than http plain text. I understand not showing the padlock icon for self-signed certificates, I don't understand why you would warn people away from them when the worst case is that they are just as unsafe as when they use plain http. IMHO this browser behavior is completely nonsensical.

No. Self-signed certificates are much worse because they bring a false sense of security. A self-signed certificate is trivially MITMed unless you have a way to authenticate the certificate. At the moment CAs are the best known way to do that (and before anyone brings certificate pinning or WoT, they come with their own problems, please read this comment of mine https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8616766 ). EDIT: Y…

The extent to which this is true depends on browser behavior. With some browser behavior self-signed certs could make some users safer against some threats; with other browser behavior they could make some users more vulnerable to some threats.

An opportunistic privacy solution with no legacy installed base to worry about is tcpcrypt:

http://www.tcpcrypt.org/

So if anyone wants to make progress on opportunistic unauthenticated encryption without having to fight about UA behaviors, tcpcrypt may be more fertile ground than self-signed certificates.

Re: Launching in 2015: A Certificate Authority to Encrypt the Entire Web

#188

It's an interesting idea, I'm just not clear on how it works (even when looking at the "How it works" section) - e.g., how do I integrate this with... say, nginx?

TLS/SSL certificate setup is a pretty mechanical task. I would imagine their program detects common web servers (nginx, apache, etc), puts the private key somewhere, and points the configuration files at it.

Re: Launching in 2015: A Certificate Authority to Encrypt the Entire Web

#189
post #3

Free CA? This is cool. Why this wasn't done a long time ago is beyond me. (Also please support wildcard certs) An interesting thing happened at a meet-up at Square last year. Someone from google's security team came out and demonstrated what google does to notify a user that a page has been compromised or is a known malicious attack site. During the presentation she was chatting about how people don't really pay atte…

> Why this wasn't done a long time ago is beyond me.

While probably not officially scriptable, free certificates have been available since a long time ago: https://www.startssl.com/?app=1

Also, no free wildcard certs. Which I really want.

> What happens if a CA is compromised?

Looking at past compromises, if they have been very irresponsible they are delisted from the browsers' list of trusted roots (see diginotar). If they have not been extremely irresponsible, then they seem to be able to continue to function (see Comodo).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DigiNotar#Refusal_to_publish_r... https://blogs.comodo.com/uncategorized/the-recent-ra-comprom...

Re: Launching in 2015: A Certificate Authority to Encrypt the Entire Web

#190

It's an interesting idea, I'm just not clear on how it works (even when looking at the "How it works" section) - e.g., how do I integrate this with... say, nginx?

afaik there will be an api to request just the certificate and you'll have to integrate it manually, or a special program which will automatically add it to nginx for you (presumably only for simple setups)
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