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For Sale: 50,000 Bitcoins

usmarshals.gov

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Re: For Sale: 50,000 Bitcoins

#121

Post by chc »

virtue3 wrote: post #120
EpicEng wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, in other words, only your own biases and preconceived notions. Edit: I'd be curious to hear the side of you down voters. Do you have a legitimate gripe with the accuracy of what i said, or do you just blindly believe that everything the government does is evil?

So, in other words, only _your_ _own_ biases and preconceived notions. Edit: I'd be curious to hear the side of you down voters. Do you have a legitimate gripe with the accuracy of what i said, or do you just blindly believe that everything the government does is _for_the_greater_good_? Your argument is just shallow and not very constructive and having it reversed should make that somewhat apparent. Personally, the g…

To recap: Kordless suggested that the sale was forced. EpicEng asked what indicated that it was forced. Sneak replied that "the 'US Marshalls' part" indicated that it was forced. EpicEng correctly noted that this does not strongly indicate that it was forced, and that to assume so based on the fact that the US Marshalls are involved is evidence of bias.

To further recap: EpicEng did not suggest that "everything the government does is for the greater good," nor did EpicEng even say that the sale was not forced — only that we don't have a compelling reason to believe it was.

Since EpicEng is merely asking for rational thought, I don't see how this can possibly be evidence of EpicEng's biases and preconceived notions.

As a side note, your phrasing here suggests that the only alternatives in your mind are "blindly trust the government" and "blindly accuse everyone involved with the government of any wrongdoing possible," which are both irrational positions. We can consider whether the government is doing something wrong without jumping to conclusions as the people EpicEng was replying to seemed to do.

Re: For Sale: 50,000 Bitcoins

#122

Post by GabrielF00 »

jnaglick wrote: post #114
duskwuff wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangent: Does anyone know if it's standard practice for these sorts of arrangements to be made if other goods become part of forfeiture proceedings? (For instance, shares of a volatile mutual fund. Or, to take it out of the financial realm entirely, a truckload of perishable vegetables.)

I would guess that there has never been a case of a criminal investing their ill-gotten gains into "a truckload of perishable vegetables."

While not really an analogue, there is the delightfully-named United States v. Approximately 64,695 Pounds of Shark Fins.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Approximately...

Re: For Sale: 50,000 Bitcoins

#123

Post by softdev12 »

It seems to me that the several bitcoin auctions by the US government aren't that bad a thing for the cryptocurrency movement. To me, it provides a headline story that's sure to raise awareness of bitcoin for the general public (something that is certainly needed). Plus, it brings out the major bitcoin buyers. It's the equivalent of Sotheby's or Christie's having an auction of Picassos or Warhols.

Re: For Sale: 50,000 Bitcoins

#124

Post by einrealist »

duskwuff wrote: post #108
stronglikedan wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically, put the current value of the coins in escrow, instead of the coins themselves, in case they drop in value dramatically over time. Makes sense to me.

Tangent: Does anyone know if it's standard practice for these sorts of arrangements to be made if other goods become part of forfeiture proceedings? (For instance, shares of a volatile mutual fund. Or, to take it out of the financial realm entirely, a truckload of perishable vegetables.)

If the prosecution loses the case, it can be held liable in a civil case to losses the defendant made. So this is just an agreement between both sides to lower that risk and which does change nothing related to the case (so the judge will agree too). I guess, if there are no objections (even from a third party), this makes totally sense for anything else, too.

Re: For Sale: 50,000 Bitcoins

#126

Post by kristianp »

Aaronneyer wrote: post #3

Will be interesting to see how this announcement effects the price of bitcoins. I would imagine there will be an initial drop out of panic, but if we see some wealthy individuals with a vested interest in bitcoin buying these up, it could very much cause a large shift upwards in price.

If bitcoin exchanges were an efficient market, there should be no drop, because this sale has been anticipated, just not the exact date. However it isn't an efficient market.

Re: For Sale: 50,000 Bitcoins

#127

Post by paulsutter »

whyenot wrote: post #28
zwtaylor wrote: post #2

I don't have a deep grasp of Civil Forfeiture but it seems like this is unusual considering DPR has not been convicted of anything yet. Is this part of a plea bargin or something similar?

Everyone seems to be going off on a tangent about civil forfeiture. From the order: http://www.usmarshals.gov/assets/2014/dpr-bitcoins/order.pdf WHEREAS, the Government and Ulbricht agree that, due to the volatile market for bitcoins, the Computer Hardware Bitcoins risk losing value during the pendency of the forfeiture proceedings; WHEREAS, the Government and Ulbricht agree that the Computer Hardware Bitcoins are to…

The IRS will go after him for capital gains tax after the sale. The document makes no mention of a provision for him to pay his taxes due from the proceeds of the sale.

Re: For Sale: 50,000 Bitcoins

#128

Post by inaworld »

DickingAround wrote: post #107
sneak wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many DPR-related bitcoins that they were unable to access. Fear not. This was not "half the point of bitcoins" - the intent of the bitcoin release is only hinted at by Satoshi. Any point you are asserting here is pure speculation. However, if you think this is a valuable property, a so-called "brainwallet" provides exactly this safety. They've been around for ages. No moving of coins required.

Where there really coins they didn't get? Source? (Not to dispute the claim, just interested) About it being half the point: Perhaps not stated explicitly, but he knew what he was doing by not baking in a government back door. From the whitepaper: "any two willing parties to transact directly with each other" I'm probably not getting the joke, but are there people who memorize their secret keys? I've never looked to…

half the point of bitcoin was to provide an alternative to so-called fiat currencies whose value is under the influence of govt policies. The idea was to be an electronic version of a return to the gold standard.

the other half was the flip side of that bitcoin.

Re: For Sale: 50,000 Bitcoins

#130

Post by patio11 »

lucb1e wrote: post #56

For scale, this is not even a day's worth of normal transactions. Yesterday about 177000 BTC was sent across the network, and that wasn't a big day.

This calculation is complicated by Bitcoin's handling of change, where (by analogy) spending $10 from a bank account with $10,000 in it can very easily result in $800 "moving across the network" even though $790 is just bouncing around in the same bank account.
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