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Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

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Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#161

Post by the_why_of_y »

sandGorgon wrote: post #116
techdragon wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I maintain my stance as a critic of systemD but it's better than what we had before. I've very little to criticise it as an init system... My criticism falls more towards the issues of "why is this all in one process not task specific child processes launched by a core init process" and "why can't you make this work on BSD" and "why the f %*^# hell are you building kdbus... Please stop killing the kittens"

But why should someone writing for Linux think about OpenBSD? Are you saying every piece of BSD software runs on Linux? Go try telling Linus that you want a BSD compatible kernel. Systemd does not run on BSD because of Cgroups and that is something the BSD maintainers don't want. Here's a small set of justifications why : systemd leverages core Linux infrastructure that has already diverged from OpenBSD http://lwn.ne…

It's sort of funny for me how the systemd attitude towards portability is quite similar to that of the OpenBSD community, whose software (OpenSSH, OpenSMTPD, OpenBGPD...) generally runs on OpenBSD only and where porting is done by a separate team, but somehow the interwebs aren't full of rants calling the OpenBSD people jerks for not caring about non-OpenBSD platforms...

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#162

Post by digi_owl »

lamontcg wrote: post #108

Seems that Godwin's Law needs to be updated for 2014. As online discussion grows longer, the probability of doxxing and death threats approaches 1. And the standard corollary is the side which doxxes and issues death threats first automatically loses the argument.

And it is quite likely that those that do them have no vested interest in the topic, but are in it "for the lulz".

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#163

Post by digi_owl »

the_why_of_y wrote: post #161
sandGorgon wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why should someone writing for Linux think about OpenBSD? Are you saying every piece of BSD software runs on Linux? Go try telling Linus that you want a BSD compatible kernel. Systemd does not run on BSD because of Cgroups and that is something the BSD maintainers don't want. Here's a small set of justifications why : systemd leverages core Linux infrastructure that has already diverged from OpenBSD http://lwn.ne…

It's sort of funny for me how the systemd attitude towards portability is quite similar to that of the OpenBSD community, whose software (OpenSSH, OpenSMTPD, OpenBGPD...) generally runs on OpenBSD only and where porting is done by a separate team, but somehow the interwebs aren't full of rants calling the OpenBSD people jerks for not caring about non-OpenBSD platforms...

OpenSSH seems to be the best known of the bunch, and even then it is loosely couples to the rest of the system.

Systemd on the other hand is rightly couples to the Linux kernel (to the point that you may have to update systemd and the Linux kernel in lockstep), and its many sub-systems are tightly coupled to the existence of systemd-pid1.

This makes systemd a whole other beast from OpenSSH.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#164

Post by wtbob »

tinco wrote: post #151
pekk wrote: post #62

With the top voted post being "systemd haters have gone too far," I find it worth mentioning that there is no relation between approving of death threats and thinking a systemd monoculture is a bad idea. Death threats are wrong. Victims aren't to blame for death threats. On the other hand, that doesn't do anything to redeem systemd or dismiss criticism of systemd. Unfortunately, now the meme will be that critics of s…

I don't think that is true at this point. Books of criticisms on systemd have already been written. There isn't a maintainer out there who hasn't heard all of it. Yet many people still insist on bothering the community with this, it's become a burden. And it's not a burden because the criticisms are valid, it's a burden because the criticisms don't actually contribute anything. I think at this point it is safe to say…

> I think at this point it is safe to say that anyone voicing criticisms on systemd without contributing fixes or solutions to said problems is hostile to the Debian community, and should neither feel or be welcome.

What the heck? Those criticising systemd have a fix, and a solution (two, even!): either don't use it, or use it but don't rely on it.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#165

Post by wtbob »

thisGuysAccount wrote: post #133
nsxwolf wrote: post #82

This is a pretty hilarious nerd fight. Unlike GamerGate this has no relevance to anyone outside this little bubble and really sounds insane. Init daemons, people!

I've been thinking about pasting this news into my Facebook. Three times, erased each time. "Guy gets multiple death threats because of the program he wants to start his computer is different from another program other people want to start their computers." This isn't a hilarious nerd fight. This is some really misguided people who don't know how to communicate.

No, it's more, 'guy gets multiple death threats[1] because he wishes to make it immensely more difficult for other people to use the program they want to start their computers, and also worsen the stability of the computers of those who use his preferred program.'

[1] Has he gotten death threats, or simply death wishes? There's a big difference between threatening someone's life and, believing him to be a net-negative to the world, being pleased when he dies.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#166

Post by thisGuysAccount »

wtbob wrote: post #165
thisGuysAccount wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been thinking about pasting this news into my Facebook. Three times, erased each time. "Guy gets multiple death threats because of the program he wants to start his computer is different from another program other people want to start their computers." This isn't a hilarious nerd fight. This is some really misguided people who don't know how to communicate.

No, it's more, 'guy gets multiple death threats[1] because he wishes to make it immensely more difficult for other people to use the program they want to start their computers, and also worsen the stability of the computers of those who use his preferred program.' [1] Has he gotten death threats, or simply death wishes? There's a big difference between threatening someone's life and, believing him to be a net-negativ…

Death threats, death wishes... it's over an init daemon on a software project.

I can't imagine "Someone wants to paint the front door RED?! They should die." happening under any circumstances. It's concerning to me, on many levels, that this is happening over systemd, regardless of the technical benefits or issues.

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