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Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

lists.alioth.debian.org

141–150 of 166 posts

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#141
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when someone actually tries to hire an assassin What???

From the horse's mouth: Recently, people started collecting Bitcoins to hire a hitman for me (this really happened!). https://plus.google.com/+LennartPoetteringTheOneAndOnly/post...

His name was on a fallacious bitcoin "assassination market" only accessible over Tor, basically just a website you could submit names to, with an associated bitcoin address. An obvious scam to glean free bitcoin. The hit man claim is complete horse shit.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#142
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get your point, yet I also see why that would be impossible from the GamerGate point of view considering how the media for the most part covered GamerGate in a biased one-sided way. Don't get me wrong, I don't support GamerGate (or the other side) at all. Yet, all gamers aren't women-hating misogynists, despite the reporting.

See, you stuck up for "GamerGate", and now I think you're one of those people who believe that Zoe Quinn's private life is everyone's business because "ethics in journalism".

It was you who just dragged her name back into this, not him.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#143
post #97
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or #shirtgate when idiot "journalist" (The Atlantic's Rose Eveleth) went ballistic over Philae ESA Project Scientist Matt Taylor's shirt. Matt had a shirt on with women similar to WWII bomber girls, fully clothed in 1940s/1950s style corsets or as Rose Eveleth and her foaming at the mouth outraged Twitter followers say they are naked women. Some people get outraged at nothing these days.

I notice that you didn't even mention the many men who also complained about that shirt, to say nothing about attacking their professional competency. Perhaps you should ask yourself why that is?

Most of the online criticism came her tweet about it going viral, or is that too simple of an explanation? You're right though, Chris Plante should share a bunch of that shame for his hyperbolic article, which also got shared everywhere and set the tone for discussion.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cops' lives (in a particularly uncharitable interpretation) revolve around reinforcing their own masculinity by winning fights and exerting dominance. Using that to protect damsels in distress from creepy male others/sexual predators is a highly masculinity-reinforcing, fatherly/brotherly and desirable thing to do. An effiminate man (using the again uncharitable notion that nerds with desk jobs are not manly in the e…

I love how this explanation is fully feminist right up to the point it utterly ignores the existence of female police officers.

On average, 18% of police officers in a given department are female. It is more likely (5-1 odds) that the officer on your case will be male.

Of course you could also get a female cop, just as you could get a male cop who takes the complaint seriously. Parent asked why the victim's gender matters; this is a reason why it is not entirely irrelevant.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#145
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the end, I have had to rewrite my init scripts for custom stuff and do extra work and I am left wondering why I even tried it in the first place. The only speed difference (which from what I can tell is the only reason anyone uses systemd) I have seen is on my desktop machine. Start up is way faster, and shut downs too. Although strangely shutdowns hang randomly for over a minute sometimes. But on my laptops, I ha…

> The only speed difference (which from what I can tell is the only reason anyone uses systemd) Not even close. To the extent it improves performance, that's a nice side effect. For me, personally, it means a few lines of .service instead of a pile of init.d, service supervision when services unexpectedly exit, easy log integration to see what services are up to, and unified activation of services by a variety of mea…

In the long run, having a unified interface to every service on the system is a win. In the short run, we find ourselves with semi-broken, or somewhat less than ideal, tooling and interfaces and a reasonably large amount of learning friction where there was a low amount before.

I've been a UNIX/Linux system administrator coming up on 20 years now (professionally since about '99), and I understand the pain. It's hard to break the habits of all that time; it's always worked before. In a pinch we've always been able to stick some shell commands somewhere and have it fire up the stuff we wanted to fire up.

But, it's nice to have one "thing" to ask questions of that will tell us a significant amount of data about the state of our system. It's something Windows Server has had for a long time (for Microsoft-provided core stuff; third party stuff has always sucked way worse than the state of things on Linux has ever been), and was arguably one of the (very few) reasons one might choose Windows over Linux on a server.

I have reservations about systemd. It's big, seemingly over-engineered and intrusive into places that init never went, and does some things in seemingly fragile ways (someone else mentioned that dependencies failing can lead to failure to boot, which is not something init ever really had a problem with). But, it's better than init, on nearly every axis. And, it is the new de facto standard.

So, I will learn it. I will work to make all the software I work on (which has an installed base in the millions, in the case of Webmin) work well with it. And, I'll probably even come to like it, eventually.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#146
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If systemd is that bad, where is The Distro Without systemd? You know, the Linux distro that sets itself apart from the rest by Not Having systemd. Just... not having it. Going with SysV init or BSD init or Something Which Is Not systemd. Because I don't see one, which implies it isn't that bad.

There are distros that don't use systemd. Slackware for one. Besides, appeal to popularity isn't a very good argument from my perspective.

It isn't appeal to popularity it's just noticing that if it didn't work nobody could possibly use it. Certainly not as many as do use it.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, BSD seems to attract a lot of people who seem self-congratulatory that they're not using Linux, just like how MacOS has been the Anti-Windows since circa 1995. My theory is that it's straight-up due to how many people use Linux compared to other non-Windows OSes and the fact the average people have more say (or think they do) compared to The One Apple Way. Any large group will have assholes, and the num…

So because BSD attracts people who seem self-congratulatory that they are not using Linux it begets a productive non-asshole environment? The parent poster was stating that OpenBSD also has a strongly opinionated leader at the top (Theo de Raadt) who has been known to rant and rave like the best, yet unlike the Linux community the OpenBSD community as a whole does not behave like that and ships functioning code quick…

The Linux community is mostly just like the BSD community. It's just larger so there are numerically more assholes because the proportion is constant.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#148
post #87

It seems like this was only the first domino to fall. Russ Allbery is resigning from the Technical Committee: https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2014/11/msg00071.html Russ was, to my mind, a voice of reason through this entire process. Losing him is a bad, bad sign.

That's three Debian maintainers in a single week. Wow.

To be clear, only Joey Hess actually left Debian. The other two only left particular positions within Debian, but are staying on with other positions.

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#149
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you context this up for us? Are you running the unstable testing branch and complaining about bugs? (If so, have you filed these bugs with anyone?) Or has your Debian system somehow gotten more buggy since they announced that systemd would be the default init system of the version of Debian that ISN'T OUT YET?

> Are you running the unstable testing branch and complaining about bugs? Yeah I'm running testing. I have been running either testing or unstable on personal machines on a rolling basis since slink (released 1999) and I have experienced breakage of various sorts over the years, but nothing as fucked up as when the switch to systemd happened. > (If so, have you filed these bugs with anyone?) Sorry I don't have a lot…

To be fair, if you're experiencing bugs in the testing distribution and not filing them, then you really have no right to complain when they're not resolved…

Re: Resignation from the pkg-systemd maintainer team

#150

It should be obvious to anyone that RedHat has a vested interest in making the vast majority of Linux distributions dependent on technology it controls. Linux is its bread-and-butter. It appears RedHat has realised that, through systemd, it can readily provide preferential support for its own projects, and place roadblocks up for projects it does not control, thus extending its influence broadly and quickly. By using…

"At this point, they can market themselves as the only rational choice for corporate Linux support..."

I'm not sure how relevant this is to Debian.

Its current, official support window of "through 1 year after the release of the next version" (with an additional LTS experiment for squeeze at the moment) is just too short for corporations running Linux in production, especially if you get started anywhere near the release of the next version. E.g. right now I'm helping a non-profit corporation upgrade from squeeze to wheezy, and the prospect of doing that again in less than two years means it probably won't be moving to jessie.

How many orgs out there are really happy with Debian's short support windows?

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