The Man Who Made the UK Say “I’m Sorry for What We Did to Turing.” • Hacker News Board

Re: The Man Who Made the UK Say “I’m Sorry for What We Did to Turing.”

#61

Post by barking » Sun, Nov 16, 2014, 10:47 AM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #58

barking wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, thanks. I'd suggest that this was quite an unusual example. It seems that his lover must have made a complaint to the police.

You seem to be saying that men were not prosecuted merely for being gay men or just for having consensual sex with other adult men in private, and that the men must have been having sex with children[1] or in public. Thousands of men each year were arrested and locked up. Police were acting as agent provocateurs (thus entrapping these men) so obviously many of those prosecutions involve sexual activity in public -- w…

I don't know how you can say from anything I wrote that I am applying a stricter standard of conduct to gay men rather than heterosexual couples. I don't understand how the downvoting/banning system works but I think it might be best if I shut up now.

Re: The Man Who Made the UK Say “I’m Sorry for What We Did to Turing.”

#62

Post by rmc » Sun, Nov 16, 2014, 11:16 AM UTC

nl wrote: post #53

rmc wrote: post #18

(Disclaimer: I'm an openly gay man working in technology). A part of me dislikes how Alan Turing was given a pardon and apology. It's like they said it was wrong to persecute a gay man for being gay, but only if you help invent the computer and help defeat the Nazis. What about all the other gay men persecuted under the same law? Why do they not get a pardon/apology? Do we have to help stop evil genocidal dictators b…

Initially I agreed with what you say here. After some thought, one aspect came up that I'd be interested in your views about: It's like they said it was wrong to persecute a gay man for being gay, but only if you help invent the computer and help defeat the Nazis. What about all the other gay men persecuted under the same law? What you say here is so obviously right that is is difficult to argue with. Maybe pardoning…

> Maybe pardoning Turing is a necessary first step to see that everyone deserves similar treatment?

Perhaps. But I haven't seen any moves to pardon all the other people as well. And the cynic in me things it won't happen.

Re: The Man Who Made the UK Say “I’m Sorry for What We Did to Turing.”

#63

Post by nl » Sun, Nov 16, 2014, 11:23 AM UTC

rmc wrote: post #62

nl wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Initially I agreed with what you say here. After some thought, one aspect came up that I'd be interested in your views about: It's like they said it was wrong to persecute a gay man for being gay, but only if you help invent the computer and help defeat the Nazis. What about all the other gay men persecuted under the same law? What you say here is so obviously right that is is difficult to argue with. Maybe pardoning…

> Maybe pardoning Turing is a necessary first step to see that everyone deserves similar treatment? Perhaps. But I haven't seen any moves to pardon all the other people as well. And the cynic in me things it won't happen.

My suspicion is that pardons don't miraculously happen. I suspect it happens because of the hard work and passion of people who want to make a difference.

Re: The Man Who Made the UK Say “I’m Sorry for What We Did to Turing.”

#64

Post by DanBC » Sun, Nov 16, 2014, 11:24 AM UTC

nl wrote: post #53

rmc wrote: post #18

(Disclaimer: I'm an openly gay man working in technology). A part of me dislikes how Alan Turing was given a pardon and apology. It's like they said it was wrong to persecute a gay man for being gay, but only if you help invent the computer and help defeat the Nazis. What about all the other gay men persecuted under the same law? Why do they not get a pardon/apology? Do we have to help stop evil genocidal dictators b…

Initially I agreed with what you say here. After some thought, one aspect came up that I'd be interested in your views about: It's like they said it was wrong to persecute a gay man for being gay, but only if you help invent the computer and help defeat the Nazis. What about all the other gay men persecuted under the same law? What you say here is so obviously right that is is difficult to argue with. Maybe pardoning…

One of the reasons the apology and pardon were delayed for so long is because some of those very many gay men are still alive and the government didn't want to open themselves to compensation claims.

As time goes by, and those men die, the pressure for an apology drops but the possibility increases. I hope campaigners do keep the pressure on.

Re: The Man Who Made the UK Say “I’m Sorry for What We Did to Turing.”

#65

Post by DanBC » Sun, Nov 16, 2014, 11:31 AM UTC

nl wrote: post #63

rmc wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe pardoning Turing is a necessary first step to see that everyone deserves similar treatment? Perhaps. But I haven't seen any moves to pardon all the other people as well. And the cynic in me things it won't happen.

My suspicion is that pardons don't miraculously happen. I suspect it happens because of the hard work and passion of people who want to make a difference.

The group of people who would campaign for pardons largely overlaps with the group of people campaigning for equal treatment under today's laws. (Same age of consent was law in England & Wales in 2001; 2009! for Northern Ireland; protections for discrimination - partial since 2003, full since 2010; gay marriage since 2014, civil partnership since 2005).

There's only so much you can campaign on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_United_Kingd...