Live data from Hacker News

The Man Who Made the UK Say “I’m Sorry for What We Did to Turing.”

medium.com

21–30 of 65 posts

Re: The Man Who Made the UK Say “I’m Sorry for What We Did to Turing.”

#21
I'm not sure that a government can meaningfully apologize for anything when all the actual participants are dead, including (but especially) the victim.

It's the half-assed, social justice warrior version of a government agreeing that things done in the past are awful. Why stop with Turing? 30,000 years ago one of your ancestors murdered a woman's children, held her captive, and raped her repeatedly. Why not apologize for that? Or for some Babylonian genocide that's 5000 years old?

It's fucking pointless.

Re: The Man Who Made the UK Say “I’m Sorry for What We Did to Turing.”

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are rather different cases. Casement was tried and convicted of treason for trying, during World War I, to get Germany to support an uprising in Ireland against Great Britain. It's true that his alleged homosexuality didn't help his case.

Oh of course, there's little doubt he committed treason, but the fact that his homosexuality was used to ensure that a fair trial was impossible is what I was trying to get at. Are there any other similar cases to Turing/Wilde/Casement that I don't know about?

Tens of thousands of people were convicted under the same law. But they weren't famous. Only little people.

Re: The Man Who Made the UK Say “I’m Sorry for What We Did to Turing.”

#23
post #18

(Disclaimer: I'm an openly gay man working in technology). A part of me dislikes how Alan Turing was given a pardon and apology. It's like they said it was wrong to persecute a gay man for being gay, but only if you help invent the computer and help defeat the Nazis. What about all the other gay men persecuted under the same law? Why do they not get a pardon/apology? Do we have to help stop evil genocidal dictators b…

As a Scot born in the late 70s (I mention my vintage as the early 80s probably seems ridiculously long ago to younger people here), I was somewhat shocked to discover that whilst male homosexual acts were decriminalised (to an extent) in 1967 in England and Wales, this did not occur in Scotland until 1980 or in Northern Ireland until 1982.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_Offences_Act_1967

Re: The Man Who Made the UK Say “I’m Sorry for What We Did to Turing.”

#24
Strange precedent set here.

So the government now has to apologies to people ever prosecuted or treated unfairly under laws which no longer exist?

So when marijuana becomes legal somewhere, the government has to pardon and apologies to all those who were arrested previously? How about those prosecuted for dealing in prescription drugs after those become OTC? What about those who weren't allowed to vote at some point in history? What of those convicted of statutory rape (consensual sex) at 17 then the legal age later lowered to 16. Where does it end?

Those laws that prosecuted Turing were maintained by an elected leadership. The people spoke with their votes and chose those laws. If Turing wanted to live in a society where the people didn't want him, how is that the fault of the existing Government?

I quite find it interesting how this article really tells quite a biased rendition of the facts.

Turing was a sugar daddy to an unemployed teenager 20 years his junior. He called the cops to his house after it was burgled, he admitted to them that he was in a homosexual relationship, he chose 1 year of estrogen shots over jail, an autopsy suggested that he died of inhalation of cyanide from an apparatus for gold electroplating spoons, using potassium cyanide to dissolve the gold, which Turing had set up in his tiny spare room. (suggesting that there was no suicide)

Turing also habitually ate an apple before bed, and it was not unusual for it to be discarded half-eaten. In addition, Turing had reportedly borne his legal setbacks and hormone treatment (which had been discontinued a year previously) "with good humour" and had shown no sign of despondency prior to his death, in fact, setting down a list of tasks he intended to complete upon return to his office after the holiday weekend.

Gay activists are starting to sound like blacks in America. Always taking the victim role and trying to further their agenda by stretching truths, sensationalism, and telling half of the story.

Re: The Man Who Made the UK Say “I’m Sorry for What We Did to Turing.”

#25
"I'm sorry for what we did to Turing". On the other hand, if you don't happen to be a genius, tough! The countless, ordinary blokes in the street who happened to be homosexuals and were prosecuted in the 1950s and earlier can go hang as with the millions of others who with hindsight suffered unfairly at the hands of various laws of the land in past centuries.

However it seems to me that for people alive today to apologize for laws made by people now dead is a cheap, meaningless (reform laws on gay sex were passed long ago - that's an 'apology' that means something) gesture. I'm all for memorials and public honourings of people like Turing (I read the Hodges biography a long time ago and was greatly moved) but I wish people would stop cheapening the word 'apology'.

Re: The Man Who Made the UK Say “I’m Sorry for What We Did to Turing.”

#26

Strange precedent set here. So the government now has to apologies to people ever prosecuted or treated unfairly under laws which no longer exist? So when marijuana becomes legal somewhere, the government has to pardon and apologies to all those who were arrested previously? How about those prosecuted for dealing in prescription drugs after those become OTC? What about those who weren't allowed to vote at some point…

Not agreeing with anything in your post, but the hypothesis that he didn't kill himself...is quite interesting. I would say that it's definitely not conclusively suicide.

On another note, I see no problem with publicly apologizing to people - all people - who were mistreated under morally unjustifiable laws. If the govt finally realizes that it's morally absurd to put people in prison for more than a decade for having some marijuana, then yes, those people do deserve a pardon and apology. What's so outlandish about that?

Re: The Man Who Made the UK Say “I’m Sorry for What We Did to Turing.”

#28
post #18

(Disclaimer: I'm an openly gay man working in technology). A part of me dislikes how Alan Turing was given a pardon and apology. It's like they said it was wrong to persecute a gay man for being gay, but only if you help invent the computer and help defeat the Nazis. What about all the other gay men persecuted under the same law? Why do they not get a pardon/apology? Do we have to help stop evil genocidal dictators b…

[dead]

Re: The Man Who Made the UK Say “I’m Sorry for What We Did to Turing.”

#29

I always liked the speculation that the original Apple logo (the rainbow one) was a reference to Turing. He (allegedly) killed himself by taking a single bite out of a cyanide-laced apple, and the rainbow stripes are a reference to his homosexuality. As far as I can tell, the idea is almost entirely without merit - but it's a nice idea.

> Stephen Fry recalls asking Steve Jobs (they were friends) if the rumours were true. Jobs replied, “It isn't true, but God we wish it were!”

http://universal-machine.blogspot.ca/2012/06/turing-and-appl...

Post reply on HN