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How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

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Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#91

Post by jobposter1234 »

bayesianhorse wrote: post #75
hobs wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, his shirt wont keep women away from science. The entire fiasco is not about science, it is LITERALLY the thing that I would want to avoid if I had planned going into this field, and I assume that women also do not want long drawn out discussions about what they are wearing INSTEAD of their impressive scientific achievements.

So you are saying pictures of scenes degrading and objectifying women as sexual objects can't make women feel degraded and objectified?

No, he is saying this:

'No, his shirt wont keep women away from science. The entire fiasco is not about science, it is LITERALLY the thing that I would want to avoid if I had planned going into this field, and I assume that women also do not want long drawn out discussions about what they are wearing INSTEAD of their impressive scientific achievements.'

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#92

Post by JackFr »

scoofy wrote: post #47
sharkweek wrote: post #5

I highly recommend folks watch Particle Fever (for a variety of reasons, and it's on Netflix), but one section particularly stuck out, when the documentary addresses the original LHC location in Texas being de-funded. It shows members of congress arguing how "discovering the origins of the universe" should not be a priority. I think it's easy to make a very public argument against budgeting research, as the general p…

This is actually a very fascinating part of my childhood. I was in middle school in Midlothian, TX during the time the "super collider" was being build in Waxahatchee. I was a kid, i was fascinated about this. The schools took it upon themselves to start teaching physics to 6th graders. The whole town knew it was a big deal. Then one day, it wasn't. I'd moved away, and heard it was turned into place to grow mushrooms…

The SSC was killed in the 103rd Congress by a Democratic majority in both the House and the Senate and a Democratic president.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/103-1993/h526 https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/103/hr2445/text

The project was originally championed by Republicans (and Democrats from Texas.)

"Reagan Calls Super Collider 'Doorway to New World'" March 31, 1988|Associated Press

http://articles.latimes.com/1988-03-31/news/mn-896_1_super-c...

George Bush: Remarks at the Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory in Waxahachie, Texas July 30, 1992

"Now, the super collider. The super collider is one of the greatest scientific projects in the entire world. This place attracts scientific genius the way our U.S. basketball players attract autograph seekers over there in Barcelona. So for me it is an incredible honor to be among you and to hear of your dreams and accomplishments."

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=21280

But I wouldn't want actual facts to cloud your worldview. You want to know why it was cancelled? Try Google.

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#93

Post by trhway »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #30
exstudent wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wasn't an attack on "men" it was an attack on a specific man and yes, it was totally outrageous. Women don't need thicker skin. No man or woman should be criticized for how they dress.

You didn't even read what the Petrie multiplier is, making your whole post a straw man attack.

man, 'vei just read what the Petrie multiplier is. It clearly explains why, given equal sexism by men and women, women's experience is worst. Thus to equalize experience, according to the Petrie multiplier, men should decrease their sexism way below women's. Forcing men to decrease their sexism way below women's is an attack on men by definition, and the Petrie multiplier provides mathematical foundation for it.

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#94

Post by hellgas00 »

trhway wrote: post #69
maxine0says wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is stupid. His shirt looks like old pinball artwork. It's obviously a vintage throwback that's harmless to anyone who isn't currently obsessed with gender politics. These feminists are so divorced from reality they are desperate and seeing everything through the prism of their bunk thought-experiments that they have to make literally everything about their imaginary oppression. Can we have one good news story wi…

He should have had naked males in leather straps there too, I guess.

I really doubt people would be freaking out on twitter if some animated firemen looking guys were printed on his shirt, especially if was an established art-form like anime. I guess what offends one offends all and should be banned because it promotes oppressions, a lot to read into from the anime printed on a shirt.

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#95

Post by mikeyouse »

Evolved wrote: post #82
mikeyouse wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a questionably appropriate shirt but when they interviewed him, he gave a strange answer about how this comet was “The sexiest mission there’s ever been. She’s sexy, but I never said she was easy.” http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/nov/13/why-women-in-...

Thankfully, the term "sexy" doesn't just apply to sex as the informal definition is something exciting, appealing, interesting and/or stimulating.

Meh, it was still a weird interview, especially combined with his shirt. I watched it live with my fiance and we were both confused and actually said out loud, "We'll be hearing about him later on."

I don't think he's sexist, I'm sure he's a well-respected and well-liked scientist, and I don't think it's fair to judge someone's worth based on a short interview when they're not used to being in the spotlight.

At the same time, I would expect more professionalism from the whole staff at ESA. Are there any offices where wearing this [http://i.imgur.com/oJ9bVDt.jpg] shirt would be okay? People are making a big deal about the fact that a woman made the shirt for him, but they seem to be omitting that he provided the fabric and asked her to make it..

A large part of the rationale for missions like Rosetta is the inspiration it provides to the next generation of scientists. Hearing crude jokes about how 'easy' the mission was from a guy wearing a nudie shirt doesn't exactly invoke inspiration. It's a shame all of the other incredibly smart, professional, and inspirational people involved with the project are overshadowed by this.

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#96

Post by nsxwolf »

JackFr wrote: post #92
scoofy wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually a very fascinating part of my childhood. I was in middle school in Midlothian, TX during the time the "super collider" was being build in Waxahatchee. I was a kid, i was fascinated about this. The schools took it upon themselves to start teaching physics to 6th graders. The whole town knew it was a big deal. Then one day, it wasn't. I'd moved away, and heard it was turned into place to grow mushrooms…

The SSC was killed in the 103rd Congress by a Democratic majority in both the House and the Senate and a Democratic president. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/103-1993/h526 https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/103/hr2445/text The project was originally championed by Republicans (and Democrats from Texas.) "Reagan Calls Super Collider 'Doorway to New World'" March 31, 1988|Associated Press http://articles.lat…

This clashes with my worldview and prejudices, so I refuse to accept any of your facts.

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#97

Post by NeverEnough »

astrange wrote: post #64
lern_too_spel wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. His achievement was celebrated as well. His shirt is the kind of thing that keeps women away from science, so the fact that he publicly acknowledged his error will make other scientists more consciously think about inclusivity, helping science in the long run.

His shirt was a handmade gift from his friend's wife, who's a tattoo artist. I would personally be surprised to find out that tattoo artists are the kind of thing that keeps women away from science. I mean, it's probably a rare interaction. Blaming their parents seems more productive.

it is that he found it an appropriate shirt to wear.

as an extreme comparison, if it was a woman dominated field and they commonly wore shirts depicting scantily clad men with bulging pants, I think it would impact my desire to enter that field.

I don't know that the parents can be blamed so readily. Here in Los Angeles at least, I've been very dissaspointed with what my classmates consider appropriate.

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#98

Post by NeverEnough »

exstudent wrote: post #13
lern_too_spel wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. His achievement was celebrated as well. His shirt is the kind of thing that keeps women away from science, so the fact that he publicly acknowledged his error will make other scientists more consciously think about inclusivity, helping science in the long run.

Incorrect, women aren't as weak as you think they are. He worked with many awesome women to make this mission happen BTW. More likely this type of overreaction and hysteria will keep free thinking individuals out of science.

Is it hysteria to suggest that what men in a male dominated field think is appropriate might have statistical significance in the representation of women?

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#99

Post by mikeyouse »

JackFr wrote: post #92
scoofy wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually a very fascinating part of my childhood. I was in middle school in Midlothian, TX during the time the "super collider" was being build in Waxahatchee. I was a kid, i was fascinated about this. The schools took it upon themselves to start teaching physics to 6th graders. The whole town knew it was a big deal. Then one day, it wasn't. I'd moved away, and heard it was turned into place to grow mushrooms…

The SSC was killed in the 103rd Congress by a Democratic majority in both the House and the Senate and a Democratic president. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/103-1993/h526 https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/103/hr2445/text The project was originally championed by Republicans (and Democrats from Texas.) "Reagan Calls Super Collider 'Doorway to New World'" March 31, 1988|Associated Press http://articles.lat…

Again, it's not as straightforward as that. It was started under Reagan and never adequately funded which is why it was behind budget and schedule in 1993. Cato and other conservative think tanks came out strongly against it in the early 1990's as well[1] which is why Bush dramatically cut funding in his budget in 1992.[2] When it came down to the final vote in the Senate to kill the program, 53% of Democrats voted to keep it (29/45) and 70% of Republicans vote to kill it (31/44).[3] The Republicans then went on to a massive sweep in 1994 based largely on promises to dramatically decrease government spending, where they highlighted projects like the SSC as wasteful.

There is plenty of blame to go around.

Steven Weinberg has a good piece about the failure of US politicians to support 'big science': http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/may/10/crisis-...

[1] - http://www.cato.org/pubs/briefs/bp-016.html

[2] - http://www.csmonitor.com/1992/0630/30013.html

[3] - http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_c...

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#100

Post by DanBC »

Evolved wrote: post #82
mikeyouse wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a questionably appropriate shirt but when they interviewed him, he gave a strange answer about how this comet was “The sexiest mission there’s ever been. She’s sexy, but I never said she was easy.” http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/nov/13/why-women-in-...

Thankfully, the term "sexy" doesn't just apply to sex as the informal definition is something exciting, appealing, interesting and/or stimulating.

True, except the context is "she" and "I never said she was easy" which makes it clear that he's weirdly kludging some ham-fisted innuendo on it.
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