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How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

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Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#41

Post by waterlesscloud »

Blahah wrote: post #32
exstudent wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His female colleagues had no issue with the shirt. It was the guy who wrote The Verge article and the following pile on that had issue with it. In fact some of his female colleagues came to his defense on Twitter.

That's completely irrelevant. The problem is that he wore a shirt that sexualises women in a televised major scientific event. Millions of people saw the video, and the image he projected was that he's more interested in sex than in making women feel welcome and valued in science. Which is incidentally the same image you're portraying.

"the image he projected was that he's more interested in sex than in making women feel welcome and valued in science. "

Was the shirt professionally appropriate? No.

Was he "projecting that he was more interested in sex than women in science"? No.

Overstating the case is probably the worst sin in political discussions. It might feel all good to do it, but all it does is make it easy for you to be dismissed entirely.

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#42

Post by Maxious »

jack-r-abbit wrote: post #15
lern_too_spel wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. His achievement was celebrated as well. His shirt is the kind of thing that keeps women away from science, so the fact that he publicly acknowledged his error will make other scientists more consciously think about inclusivity, helping science in the long run.

But at the same time, this guy is bound to get other people interested in science that may not have been before. He's a freaking inked up metal fan.[1] I don't think every person needs to make "more women in STEM" their life's mission. It is something that needs to be done. But what about a mission of "more [other people] in STEM" for a few of them. [1] http://www.metalsucks.net/2014/11/13/dr-matt-taylor-dude-put...

How many people need to make it their life's mission before there is at least one person who could have explained to this guy to wear a hoodie over his shirt? Why does it take a world wide live stream audience before it is possible to find someone in the building to make that conversation happen?

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#43

Post by jacobolus »

wozniacki wrote: post #35
sharkweek wrote: post #5

I highly recommend folks watch Particle Fever (for a variety of reasons, and it's on Netflix), but one section particularly stuck out, when the documentary addresses the original LHC location in Texas being de-funded. It shows members of congress arguing how "discovering the origins of the universe" should not be a priority. I think it's easy to make a very public argument against budgeting research, as the general p…

When these topics, concerning the general disinterestedness and the indifference of the voting populace toward science and technology come up, one is left to wonder how it is even arithmetically possible in 2014, that there isn't yet a financially lofty interest-group apparatus in Washington, advancing policies that collectively foster the cause of basic research in science & tech. Where are the think tanks? Where ar…

> Heck, there isn't a single nationally syndicated journalist who can even rebut the casually-dystopian hogwash Hollywood routinely churns out, like clockwork.[3]

> [3] Blade Runner: The Final Cut, review

Can you explain this one? I don’t understand why journalists should be “rebutting” SF movies from the early 80s.

I have never heard someone use the plot of Blade Runner as any kind of policy advice... which makes sense because we’re not living in the aftermath of a nuclear war, and we don’t have to deal with escaped androids from off-world colonies. Most of the Blade Runner fans (and fans of the Dick novel) I’ve met are bullish on technology.

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#44

Post by wozniacki »

jacobolus wrote: post #43
wozniacki wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When these topics, concerning the general disinterestedness and the indifference of the voting populace toward science and technology come up, one is left to wonder how it is even arithmetically possible in 2014, that there isn't yet a financially lofty interest-group apparatus in Washington, advancing policies that collectively foster the cause of basic research in science & tech. Where are the think tanks? Where ar…

> Heck, there isn't a single nationally syndicated journalist who can even rebut the casually-dystopian hogwash Hollywood routinely churns out, like clockwork.[3] > [3] Blade Runner: The Final Cut, review Can you explain this one? I don’t understand why journalists should be “rebutting” SF movies from the early 80s. I have never heard someone use the plot of Blade Runner as any kind of policy advice... which makes se…

It pays to actually explore the links, provided.

  There are some people who prefer the original's gritty
  Chandleresque voice-over narration and the ambiguous happy 
  ending (both supposedly forced on Scott), but the Final
  Cut is a more disturbing tale of dehumanisation.

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#45

Post by dalke »

exstudent wrote: post #13
lern_too_spel wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. His achievement was celebrated as well. His shirt is the kind of thing that keeps women away from science, so the fact that he publicly acknowledged his error will make other scientists more consciously think about inclusivity, helping science in the long run.

Incorrect, women aren't as weak as you think they are. He worked with many awesome women to make this mission happen BTW. More likely this type of overreaction and hysteria will keep free thinking individuals out of science.

I wouldn't want to work in a workplace which wears its objectification on its sleeve like that. Your argument seems to be that I'm weak because of all the opportunities available to me I would prefer to work someplace else.

Thus, while I think that lern_too_spel is incomplete, in that some men may also stay out of science for these reasons, I strongly object to your name calling. I am not "weak" for my decisions on the sort of work environments I will participate in.

Nor do I think that others, women or men, who make the same decision are weak. Yet, oddly, you want to call me and them names for making what I think are principled decisions. That sounds like a back-handed taunt by you to those who stay out of a given workplace for these reasons.

There's of course no clear cut line. Would a shirt using Botticelli's "The Birth of Venus" instead be a problem? Playboy's famous "Lenna" picture for image processing? The full original Lenna centerfolds hanging on the wall? A background screensaver showing people having sex? Or on a related subject, a cross hanging on the wall, along with quotes from "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God", and prayers to start off each workplace meeting? Mounted trophy heads from all of the hunts from various staff outings? A mariachi band walking through the offices every 10 minutes? Unairconditioned offices next to a pig farm and under the approach path to Atlanta's Hartsfield-Jackson airport?

Each case is personal, and one's personal decision to avoid a certain workplace or even career must not be considered a weakness.

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#46

Post by jacobolus »

wozniacki wrote: post #44
jacobolus wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Heck, there isn't a single nationally syndicated journalist who can even rebut the casually-dystopian hogwash Hollywood routinely churns out, like clockwork.[3] > [3] Blade Runner: The Final Cut, review Can you explain this one? I don’t understand why journalists should be “rebutting” SF movies from the early 80s. I have never heard someone use the plot of Blade Runner as any kind of policy advice... which makes se…

It pays to actually explore the links, provided. There are some people who prefer the original's gritty Chandleresque voice-over narration and the ambiguous happy ending (both supposedly forced on Scott), but the Final Cut is a more disturbing tale of dehumanisation.

I did read that. I still have no idea what you’re getting at. Could you please “explain it like I’m five”?

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#47

Post by scoofy »

sharkweek wrote: post #5

I highly recommend folks watch Particle Fever (for a variety of reasons, and it's on Netflix), but one section particularly stuck out, when the documentary addresses the original LHC location in Texas being de-funded. It shows members of congress arguing how "discovering the origins of the universe" should not be a priority. I think it's easy to make a very public argument against budgeting research, as the general p…

This is actually a very fascinating part of my childhood. I was in middle school in Midlothian, TX during the time the "super collider" was being build in Waxahatchee. I was a kid, i was fascinated about this. The schools took it upon themselves to start teaching physics to 6th graders. The whole town knew it was a big deal. Then one day, it wasn't.

I'd moved away, and heard it was turned into place to grow mushrooms. I never understood when i was young, why they wouldn't want to build something so important. To be honest, i still don't really understand why we didn't build it aside from simply "Republicans." I'll check out the film.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_Super_Collider

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#48

Post by anigbrowl »

wozniacki wrote: post #35
sharkweek wrote: post #5

I highly recommend folks watch Particle Fever (for a variety of reasons, and it's on Netflix), but one section particularly stuck out, when the documentary addresses the original LHC location in Texas being de-funded. It shows members of congress arguing how "discovering the origins of the universe" should not be a priority. I think it's easy to make a very public argument against budgeting research, as the general p…

When these topics, concerning the general disinterestedness and the indifference of the voting populace toward science and technology come up, one is left to wonder how it is even arithmetically possible in 2014, that there isn't yet a financially lofty interest-group apparatus in Washington, advancing policies that collectively foster the cause of basic research in science & tech. Where are the think tanks? Where ar…

As someone who works in the film industry, Hollywood makes movies that reflects the public's hopes and fears. It doesn't do dystopia for its own sake, any more than it does mindless techno-optimism. Picking out the re-release of Blade Runner as an example of what Hollywood churns out 'like clockwork' seems self-contradictory to say the least.

On the larger question of why we don't have a lobby to fund basic research, I don't know - perhaps because nobody wants to expend political capital on research that might not be patentable or commercially exploitable, plus you could argue that private capital is already performing effectively in that area. I think it's absurd to pin the blame on Hollywood and think it's more to do with the limitations of our geographically representative form of government, which makes alternative electoral structures like party lists impossible. Probably the best hope for blue-sky scientific research is a new cold war, sadly :-(

Re: How a Shrimp Treadmill Became a Political Plaything

#49

Post by jack-r-abbit »

Maxious wrote: post #42
jack-r-abbit wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But at the same time, this guy is bound to get other people interested in science that may not have been before. He's a freaking inked up metal fan.[1] I don't think every person needs to make "more women in STEM" their life's mission. It is something that needs to be done. But what about a mission of "more [other people] in STEM" for a few of them. [1] http://www.metalsucks.net/2014/11/13/dr-matt-taylor-dude-put...

How many people need to make it their life's mission before there is at least one person who could have explained to this guy to wear a hoodie over his shirt? Why does it take a world wide live stream audience before it is possible to find someone in the building to make that conversation happen?

Maybe it took a world wide live stream audience to find enough loud people to complain about it. Not every one has an issue with his shirt. So it is not without reason to think that nobody he works with took offense to his shirt because they know him for more than his clothes.
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