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Why Is Google Blocking Inbox on Firefox?

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Re: Why Is Google Blocking Inbox on Firefox?

#61

Post by cognivore »

custardcream wrote: post #41
cognivore wrote: post #39

There's not really a good reason for Google to make applications they create work outside their own run-time environment - Chrome. Any technical reason they might offer (sparse array performance) is just facetious. They have the technical know-how to solve such problems, but business wise it makes little sense. I use three web browsers for just that reason. Chrome for Google products (YouTube, Gmail, now Inbox, etc.)…

Yes there is. It's the world wide web. An interoperable universal interaction standard. Or it was until Google started pulling an IE6 game. I use Firefox for everything because there is no central motivation to specialise. If a site doesn't work well, it doesn't get my business.

Well, yes, that'd be nice if we had a "interoperable universal interaction standard." But now the majority (and soon, almost everyone) will be using the internet on tiny personal computers (smartphones) that run native apps. Using a web browser will become less and less important or even relevant. In such a case the costs of optimizing for multiple run-times makes little sense. Really, abandoning the browser for native apps (in the old days we called them "programs") across the board makes more sense, and leave browsers to what they were originally intended for - document perusal and simple data collection.

And web browsers absolutely suck at UI for applications. Imagine the man hours and effort that went into building Gmail. It boggles the mind. Who would even want to maintain that?! All for something that could have been created as a native app much easier. There's a lot of reasons that people have gravitated towards apps on phones, but one of them is assuredly that the experience is better than using a web browser.

Re: Why Is Google Blocking Inbox on Firefox?

#62

Post by Bahamut »

For those who did not see my comment in the gist, I'll paste it here:

"Probably the performance threshold Google has for its consumer facing products - if it runs slow on Firefox, then it would have normally have been a release blocker."

Google cares probably the most out of any tech company I have seen about performance, especially with any consumer facing apps.

CSP would probably be trivial for Google to fix. Animations/transitions similarly so. The only real explanation that makes sense is performance.

Re: Why Is Google Blocking Inbox on Firefox?

#63

Post by indymike »

custardcream wrote: post #55
eloisant wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering Microsoft is now Open Sourcing dotnet and releasing it for OSX and Linux, at what point did Google and Microsoft crossed each other?

Within the last couple of months literally. I think to be honest that some of the stuff Microsoft have been working on behind the scenes is probably scaring the crap out of Apple and Google. There's not been a platform as holistic and complete as Microsoft's offerings so far and they are adding REAL value daily rather than just moving the chess pieces to great fanfare.

I hope you are right, but nothing I've seen has made me go, "I need to build on MS."

Re: Why Is Google Blocking Inbox on Firefox?

#64

Post by a3_nm »

jimktrains2 wrote: post #53
Oculus wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the issue is as much with the clients as it is with the spam filtering Google provides. The sheer volume of emails they handle allows them to have the best spam filtering in the world. Something, that will be very difficult to duplicate through OSS.

The issue is with sending mail. Running my own mail server just feels like a loosing proposition as inevitably it'll be blocked because it's not a well known one.

Certainly this is what will happen if everyone thinks the same way as you...

(I have been my own SMTP server (hosted by OVH) for a few months now. I was blocked exactly once, by custom filtering from a small provider where the delivery status notification said to appeal to abuse@, I emailed them and they fixed it in minutes.)

Re: Why Is Google Blocking Inbox on Firefox?

#65

Post by jaimeyap »

diggan wrote: post #19
jaimeyap wrote: post #3

I think the term "blocking" is a bit misleading. It implies they have it running properly in FireFox and are going out of their way to make it only run in Chrome. It seems more likely they had an aggressive plan to ship inbox across Web, Android and iOS. And they started with "Chrome only" to save development time. I'm sure support for other modern browsers will follow soon.

Yes, it is indeed functional in Firefox, with some adjustments to their animations, it would be "running properly". And yes, they are going out of their way to make it run only in Chrome since all the rest of the browsers are blocked.

Going into your firefox flags and disabling content security policy does not count as "working in Firefox". Also the linked post reports performance problems.

Never assume malice when there is a perfectly reasonable explanation. They shipped an awesome product as fast as they could. Firefox support is probably coming soon.

Re: Why Is Google Blocking Inbox on Firefox?

#66

Post by louthy »

akavel wrote: post #59
phpnode wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they'd supported Firefox from the start everyone would be slating them for "crippling" Firefox, or they would have had a poor user experience that would turn a non trivial percentage of early adopters off the entire product. They cannot win here, it was a bug in FF, it is now fixed, presumably they'll stop blocking when the fix is more widely available.

In other words: performance is a feature . And thus, not wanting to ship a product with an important feature missing should be understandable.

Quite. Performance is definitely a feature of Google Inbox and it's very much appreciated. I think it's an excellent tool, and the rapidness of action responses is definitely a huge part of that.

Re: Why Is Google Blocking Inbox on Firefox?

#67

Post by Bjartr »

cognivore wrote: post #39

There's not really a good reason for Google to make applications they create work outside their own run-time environment - Chrome. Any technical reason they might offer (sparse array performance) is just facetious. They have the technical know-how to solve such problems, but business wise it makes little sense. I use three web browsers for just that reason. Chrome for Google products (YouTube, Gmail, now Inbox, etc.)…

>They have the technical know-how to solve such problems, but business wise it makes little sense.

In this case, the business priority was a release coincident with Lollipop.

Re: Why Is Google Blocking Inbox on Firefox?

#68

Post by shadowmint »

phpnode wrote: post #54
diggan wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks a lot for that information! Will include it in the post when I get a chance. The performance is kind of bad in Firefox but I'm not sure it justifies blocking the entire browser because of that. For a comparison, Google Photos is slow as hell in Firefox, but you could still use it if you want to.

If they'd supported Firefox from the start everyone would be slating them for "crippling" Firefox, or they would have had a poor user experience that would turn a non trivial percentage of early adopters off the entire product. They cannot win here, it was a bug in FF, it is now fixed, presumably they'll stop blocking when the fix is more widely available.

They could have made the effort to make this work on firefox from the start, but someone decided the effort wasnt worth it.

The 'would have been bad experience to new users' is a strawman arguement. Solution: dont release product until it works. Firefox is fast enough if you write code with it in mind.

...but hey, who cares about anything except chrome right? If someone visits play.google.com on an ipad and safari crashes screw them for not using android right?

Its Business Politics at play, not technical restrictions.

Re: Why Is Google Blocking Inbox on Firefox?

#69

Post by custardcream »

cognivore wrote: post #61
custardcream wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes there is. It's the world wide web. An interoperable universal interaction standard. Or it was until Google started pulling an IE6 game. I use Firefox for everything because there is no central motivation to specialise. If a site doesn't work well, it doesn't get my business.

Well, yes, that'd be nice if we had a "interoperable universal interaction standard." But now the majority (and soon, almost everyone) will be using the internet on tiny personal computers (smartphones) that run native apps. Using a web browser will become less and less important or even relevant. In such a case the costs of optimizing for multiple run-times makes little sense. Really, abandoning the browser for nati…

As someone who is old enough to have written "programs" and sees the instant relationship to "apps", I vigorously disagree. Lets consider these points:

1. Firstly there are competing platforms on which to deploy your programs. This means there is little common ground between the three major sectors of the market. You either have to pick one and lose market share or pick all and increase cost. Nothing (yet) has solved this problem adequately without increasing cost or decreasing agility and/or quality and consistency.

2. Each of these platforms has many barriers to entry from subscription fees, having to buy specific hardware and learn how to use it, distribution and vendor costs, QA cost and the risks of rejection and having your product closed suddenly.

3. All of the markets are primarily consumer oriented which makes deploying things to corporate entities a pain in the backside requiring more hoops to jump through.

4. None of the programs have longevity, a stable platform to run on, security guarantees or predictable security evolution.

So at the end of the day, you're pitching programs sold behind a walled garden by someone who wants a slice of your cash and doesn't give a fuck if the device works after you've sold it versus a platform with zero entry cost, total ubiquity and importantly absolutely no distribution or sales model at all so you can build your own?

Nope.

People take apps because they're cheap, free or the vendor is pushing them. That's it. If it wasn't the case, the first thing we'd do when we unboxed a mac or a PC was download and install facebook. Which we don't do.

As for mobile first everything, not a chance.

Re: Why Is Google Blocking Inbox on Firefox?

#70

Post by custardcream »

indymike wrote: post #63
custardcream wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Within the last couple of months literally. I think to be honest that some of the stuff Microsoft have been working on behind the scenes is probably scaring the crap out of Apple and Google. There's not been a platform as holistic and complete as Microsoft's offerings so far and they are adding REAL value daily rather than just moving the chess pieces to great fanfare.

I hope you are right, but nothing I've seen has made me go, "I need to build on MS."

One thing has for me: people are spending lots of money on them. Top slicing that is pretty easy.

Oh and most problems are solved or canned so all we're doing is gluing things together and making it look pretty (which is what programming via abstractions is all about).

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