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Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

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Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#811

Post by 72deluxe »

m_mueller wrote: post #684
jacquesm wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get by without MS and Apple just fine (as I wrote elsewhere, I do still have an elderly Mac here that is sometimes used for compatibility testing but I don't even remember when I started it up last and it currently isn't even plugged in). As for Google, that's the hard one to avoid. Adsense/Adwords is easy, youtube is hard (plenty of video content is only available on youtube), google search is still better than du…

> Oh, and the Nvidia binary drivers for the graphics card in this box. With NVIDIA drivers you probably have at least some LLVM compiled components (or will have, once their transition has been completed in future generations), but I give you that one. As a GPGPU developer for example, you probably soon can't get around LLVM anymore and I expect its influence to grow in the Linux world, as it has become the default c…

Isn't LLVM used in nvidia drivers for compiling shaders at runtime? GLSL needs compiling, and I thought everyone typically used LLVM for this?

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#812

Post by alkonaut »

MrBra wrote: post #803
alkonaut wrote: post #784

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible but the windows ui libs like Windows.Forms and WPF won't be included in the core. You have always been able to use monk+Qt and this will likely improve now. See e.g MonoDevelop.

But isn't Mono supposed to merge with .NET now? So in the end will I be able to use VS to this purpose? Also I am seeing that last version of https://code.google.com/p/qt4dotnet/ is 4 years old?

Not sure what will happen to Mono, I believe they will continue to live side by side, and Mono will include parts of the now released framework source.

There are a number of Gui toolkits to choose from, see e.g. http://www.mono-project.com/docs/gui/gui-toolkits/

All should work with microsofts framework just like they do with mono.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#813

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

fapjacks wrote: post #151
click170 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure, I kind of feel like this is them following Embrace Extend Extinguish, except they realized they moved to step 3 too soon so they're going back to step 2 or 1. I do not have faith that they won't try step 3 again later.

Absolutely. There is zero regard for open source from Microsoft here. At the very least they must be trying to return to the "developers, developers, developers" days. With Bill Gates punching the clock, it's really anybody's guess what the real motivation is here, but it sure as hell isn't all the things we know and love about open source.

> Absolutely. There is zero regard for open source from Microsoft here.

What would it take for you to say "gosh, now Microsoft has regard for open source!" ?

If the answer is "nothing, I'd never say that ever" then you don't have an opinion, you have a fixed religious belief.

And how does your threshold for Microsoft differ from the same for Apple. Google, Facebook et al?

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#814

Post by 72deluxe »

alkonaut wrote: post #412
shmerl wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Developers need to start looking more seriously at C#/.Net. I don't think they need to. They might if they have some particular need in it, but there are way more interesting things to learn if you are interested in something new, like Rust of example.

I don't think there is much overlap between the use cases of C#/.NET and rust. Rust would be a low level systems programming language, i.e. a replacement for C++. While C++ has a place in the .NET ecosystem, there is a reason that C++ and .NET are different beasts and still exist side by side as different universes. CoD and Photoshop are C++, they would probably benefit from being Rust applications. While in the past…

How would Photoshop benefit from being Rust?

Is C++ broken? I'd say with the C++11 and C++14 changes, it's getting less and less "broken" from the complaints usually levied at it.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#815

Post by room271 »

bad_user wrote: post #568
jbooth wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that's good, sorry for asking. I've had a lot of people point at the big-0 notation of that linked-list append and tell me that it's faster than an ArrayList append on average. Usually this is right after telling me that "I just don't get it" with immutable collections. So I hope you can see why I'd react that way. As I'm sure you know, when it comes to real-world situations, reducing inter-thread communication…

> You shouldn't have read contention with locking in the first place unless it's for a very good reason. True, but you know how it is in practice :-) For example I found that using persistent data-structures work best when you've got single producer, multiple consumers scenarios - so you mutate some state and you want to signal it over asynchronous boundaries to multiple consumers. With an immutable data-structure yo…

> Actually non-blocking logic becomes really easy, as you can always shove an immutable value into an atomic reference (note - I'm not saying "wait free", which still takes a lot of work :))

Why the atomic reference here? I know that provides CAS but if we're talking about a single writer aren't you okay to just replace things anyway?

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#817

Post by 72deluxe »

korobool wrote: post #236

C# is the most modern, and one of the best languages we have in the market. Linux is the best platform. Hope to see them truly together. Thank you MS guys for the contributing into world industry.

Linux as the best platform is subjective! It isn't the best for desktop use, not for me anyway.

C# has been available for Linux for years.

I would argue that C++ is also a brilliant language, and is just improving and improving.

But anyway, just another platform to write another language on. More employment opportunities for all of us.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#818

Post by V-2 »

coldtea wrote: post #781
iamjustasking wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"For enterprise work I'd actually agree that nothing beats C#." - i'm sad to read this. It's a pain to develop even a simple thing with c#/java because of the 'great' lang design and ugly tools. "I also love Haskell, but let's be honest - it won't get me hired, or at least not here in Bulgaria." - with a toy lang, nobody(if sane) will hire you.

"with a toy lang, nobody(if sane) will hire you" C# is the "toy lang"? How old are you exactly?

I think he called Haskell that. Booo

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#819

Post by jabbernotty »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #795
recursive wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI emcrazyone, it appears that you have been shadow-banned. I don't have any specific recommendations for your question, but I thought you should know.

Telling people they have been shadow-banned defeats the purpose of it.

It does not serve a purpose to me. To whom does it serve a purpose to shadow-ban that user, and what purpose is it?

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#820

Post by Dewie »

jbooth wrote: post #538
bad_user wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you know anything about cache hierarchy and memory models on modern CPUs? Yes I do. Worked 3 years on a soft real-time system with massive load, profiled the shit out of everything. There's an interesting discussion we could have about when immutable data-structures work best, when they've got problems and when it doesn't matter, especially given the extra benefits in dealing with accidental complexity. This isn…

Well, that's good, sorry for asking. I've had a lot of people point at the big-0 notation of that linked-list append and tell me that it's faster than an ArrayList append on average. Usually this is right after telling me that "I just don't get it" with immutable collections. So I hope you can see why I'd react that way. As I'm sure you know, when it comes to real-world situations, reducing inter-thread communication…

> Well, that's good, sorry for asking.

Gotta test for any chinks in the armour.

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