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Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

news.microsoft.com

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Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#601

Post by mercurial »

tolmasky wrote: post #239
jacquesm wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Stacker - Netscape - SCO And many others besides. Companies have reputations just like people do (that's why we call them 'incorporated') and just like you can lose your trust in a person you can lose your trust in a corporation. This is not about Microsoft just doing 'stupid stuff sometimes' it is about institutionalized criminal behavior sanctioned at the highest level of one of the largest software companies in…

Much like countries, it doesn't necessarily make sense to treat companies like people when it comes to reputation. You shouldn't hold a grudge against a country forever, many of the people inside of it may have disagreed with its actions and more importantly the leadership could be completely different now. Similalrly, if most of the employees at Microsoft today are different than in the 90s and the leadership is com…

> Much like countries, it doesn't necessarily make sense to treat companies like people when it comes to reputation. You shouldn't hold a grudge against a country forever, many of the people inside of it may have disagreed with its actions and more importantly the leadership could be completely different now.

Sure, but it really depends on what and how much. Microsoft made their fortune by being ethically bankrupt and breaking the law. If the Mafia decided to reform today and go legit, it would be a long hard slough before anybody would actually trust them. And if they kept extortion as a side business, it would make it very hard to believe anything they have to say, regardless of the amount of money they give to charity.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#602

Post by seanmcdirmid »

bad_user wrote: post #310
jkrems wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's why you would use F# in .NET if you want something like Scala. And then I heard many people say that .NET wins again.

Meh, F# is pretty good, but Scala has a better type-system. You cannot model type-classes in F# for example and there's some ugliness in it, in a true Ocaml fashion - for example I don't like how you've got to deal with 2 types of generics or the prevalence of "static" methods, static methods that are complete hacks that go back to C++ at least (Scala has no such thing as static methods btw). In many ways Scala is a…

Scala for .net never actually worked, at least when I tried it. I submitted a few bug reports and started leaning C#.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#603

Post by hokkos »

jakevn wrote: post #519
hokkos wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is easier, there is only one concept to understand : generics, with scala you must understand generics, co and contra-variance, implicits.

That's true. A talented C# dev will need to know co/contravariance as well as implicits considering they also exist in C#. In Scala, being familiar with these concepts is practically a necessity, though.

Can you give me examples of implicits in C# ? I am unable to see a parallel.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#604

Post by yuhong »

jacquesm wrote: post #510
yuhong wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I feel this is not worth the effort. Though this reminds me of Apple's attempt to push users to use Safari, which I agree is a bad idea.

And googles attempts to get people to switch to chrome. That button really got on my nerves. As if it should matter to google what browser I use to view a website. Oh, wait, it does.

I think most of that targeted IE users.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#605

Post by frowaway001 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #594
eloisant wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C# as a language is better than Java, but not as good as Scala.

I went from scala to C# 7 years ago, and after some feature withdrawal, I began to like C# for its simplicity. It was not very elegant, I often had to settle for ugly solutions, but this was actually a step up from scala where I would obsess to find the most elegant solution for my code. In C#, the best way is more obvious even if not that good, and you settle more quickly. As the language is considered holistically…

> they don't make dubious decisions (getting rid of semi colons) that are theoretically sound but screw up tooling

Wait WUT? I'm not sure you know what you are talking about ... that just doesn't make any sense.

Scala 7 years ago is fundamentally different from today's Scala, so I'm not seeing how your experience is relevant anymore.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#606

Post by shmerl »

alkonaut wrote: post #412
shmerl wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Developers need to start looking more seriously at C#/.Net. I don't think they need to. They might if they have some particular need in it, but there are way more interesting things to learn if you are interested in something new, like Rust of example.

I don't think there is much overlap between the use cases of C#/.NET and rust. Rust would be a low level systems programming language, i.e. a replacement for C++. While C++ has a place in the .NET ecosystem, there is a reason that C++ and .NET are different beasts and still exist side by side as different universes. CoD and Photoshop are C++, they would probably benefit from being Rust applications. While in the past…

There is an overlap with languages like C# and Java in areas which are usually supposed to be served by systems programming languages. It surprised me in the past, but I guess big amount of developers can be the cause of it. For instance, why would you write Hadoop / HDFS in Java? Or mobile systems in C#? I'd write such things only in systems programming languages. But I guess some thought it's OK. So overlap does exist because of what's used in practice, not because they are theoretically close in approach.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#608

Post by jorgecastillo »

codeshaman wrote: post #179

Good move, but (too) late. The move is designed to attract iOS and Android Devs to .NET. But let's see: As an iOS developer, I've invested years in learning Objective-C and Cocoa, UIKit, etc. Now I'm starting with Swift. I'm sure a lot of iOS devs feel this way. Besides, if I can't use it from OSX, then I'm out. Why should I forget everything and learn C#/.NET ? If I want a write-once-run-everywhere thing, then I cou…

As you say this news is great for C# developers. The rest of us couldn't care less.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#609

Post by seanmcdirmid »

lmm wrote: post #259
jkrems wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's why you would use F# in .NET if you want something like Scala. And then I heard many people say that .NET wins again.

F# is elegant but ultimately held back by its lack of higher kinded types.

I can't tell if you are serious or joking :). it is definitely a trade off to be made, the power offered by higher kinded typing doesnt come for free.

Re: Microsoft takes .NET open source and cross-platform

#610

Post by dragonwriter »

bad_user wrote: post #310
jkrems wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's why you would use F# in .NET if you want something like Scala. And then I heard many people say that .NET wins again.

Meh, F# is pretty good, but Scala has a better type-system. You cannot model type-classes in F# for example and there's some ugliness in it, in a true Ocaml fashion - for example I don't like how you've got to deal with 2 types of generics or the prevalence of "static" methods, static methods that are complete hacks that go back to C++ at least (Scala has no such thing as static methods btw). In many ways Scala is a…

> There wouldn't be any problem for porting Scala to .NET.

Other than the fact that .NET reified generics and Scala's type system don't play well together, which was one of the big challenges facing Scala.NET.

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