Partnering with Mozilla • Hacker News Board

Re: Partnering with Mozilla

#91

Post by 01Michael10 » Wed, Nov 12, 2014, 4:47 PM UTC

jMyles wrote: post #68

01Michael10 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guns are NOT defensive weapons... You could be standing in the Starbucks line with any weapon of your choosing and I can just walk up to you and pull out a pistol and splatter your brains across the counter. No problem... EDIT - Why is my off-topic comment with an argument being down-voted in a reply to a off-topic statement with no argument is not? There must be a lot of gun lovers on Hacker News...

You are being downvoted because people disagree. I'm not sure how I feel about the downvote button being used this way, but I also disagree with you. I wish that instead of downvoting, people will just explain their positions. For my part: Personally owned firearms are used for defense far more often than for aggression. The easiest scenario to picture is the one in which a sidearm is merely revealed (rather than bra…

Well, I would have to disagree with just about everything you wrote...

>The easiest scenario to picture is the one in which a sidearm is merely revealed (rather than brandished or fired) in order to deter an attacker.

Huh? Where do you live where this scenario ever happens? I am 45 and lived in a major city half my life and not really in the best part of town. I have never had the need to reveal a weapon to a would be attacker. If someone is going to mug me their weapon will be already pointed at me and revealing any weapon I have is just going to get me shot. I think maybe you watch to much TV...

>A sufficient distribution of concealed carry permits creates (or at least can create) a sort of herd immunity against certain types of violent crime.

Source? I just looked at murder rates for NY (where I live) with a low concealed carry permits ratio to Texas which has a high concealed carry permits. Gee, Texas has a higher murder rate...

>Volunteer open carry provides an example of how protective force might be delegated in a community without the need for a police force.

Ok, I am not a huge fan of police forces but I am also not a huge fan of more random people walking around with guns. The majority of people are to violent, mentally unstable, to just plain to dumb to be carrying weapons around.

We already try the wild west thing and it didn't work out...

Re: Partnering with Mozilla

#92

Post by zobzu » Wed, Nov 12, 2014, 6:36 PM UTC

01Michael10 wrote: post #90

zobzu wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because your argument makes no sense at all to the majority (me included). A tool is a tool. Its how you use it that makes it good or bad. I tend to believe that people who see a tool as one that can only be used in one direction, to be the ones most likely to use it in that direction.

Did your comment have something to do with what I posted? I was pointing out guns (yes, they are tools) are not good defensive weapons (the wrong tool).

that's your opinion. they're used as defensive weapons everywhere. your opinion is that its not effective.

Re: Partnering with Mozilla

#93

Post by 01Michael10 » Wed, Nov 12, 2014, 7:31 PM UTC

zobzu wrote: post #92

01Michael10 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did your comment have something to do with what I posted? I was pointing out guns (yes, they are tools) are not good defensive weapons (the wrong tool).

that's your opinion. they're used as defensive weapons everywhere. your opinion is that its not effective.

Really? Just you saying they are defensive weapons makes it so?

You remember that news story from a couple of years ago in Seattle (I think)... Four professionally trained and armed policemen sitting at a coffee shop and one person walks up and shoots them all dead? Their guns were useless...

If we were living in movie world I would say guns are great defensive weapons because the good guys always know the bad guys are coming and have their guns drawn (or have super human reaction and aim). In real life? Not so much...

Re: Partnering with Mozilla

#94

Post by jMyles » Wed, Nov 12, 2014, 8:32 PM UTC

1ris wrote: post #79

jMyles wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and guns to defend.

All this infighting is certainly not helping civil rights. I'm not amercian, but a EFF-ACLU-NRA-SPLC-AI would be a great thing. Right now the civil rights and their proponents are played off against each other, and the rest of the world is suffering from this, too.

Such an important step for us to take.

Let's add SSDP as well.

I've never understood how enthusiasts about some rights can be so dismissive of others. Poignant critique is one thing, but there's a lot of, as I say, simple dismissism (?) going on.

Once again, I have to suggest Porcupine Festival. It's the only place I've seen that has such incredible unity on these fronts.

Re: Partnering with Mozilla

#95

Post by jMyles » Wed, Nov 12, 2014, 8:36 PM UTC

01Michael10 wrote: post #91

jMyles wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are being downvoted because people disagree. I'm not sure how I feel about the downvote button being used this way, but I also disagree with you. I wish that instead of downvoting, people will just explain their positions. For my part: Personally owned firearms are used for defense far more often than for aggression. The easiest scenario to picture is the one in which a sidearm is merely revealed (rather than bra…

Well, I would have to disagree with just about everything you wrote... >The easiest scenario to picture is the one in which a sidearm is merely revealed (rather than brandished or fired) in order to deter an attacker. Huh? Where do you live where this scenario ever happens? I am 45 and lived in a major city half my life and not really in the best part of town. I have never had the need to reveal a weapon to a would b…

> I have never had the need to reveal a weapon to a would be attacker. If someone is going to mug me their weapon will be already pointed at me and revealing any weapon I have is just going to get me shot.

I don't speak from personal experience; I've never owned a firearm. However, a number of my friends have had this experience. One possibility is that this is more important for women? A women, being threatened by an unarmed man, can change the complexion of the power balance by revealing a weapon.

I don't have a good source for this; it's very possible that I'm wrong.

Even if it rarely happens, it's still an easy way to picture the 'purely' defensive capacity of a sidearm.

Re: Partnering with Mozilla

#96

Post by jMyles » Wed, Nov 12, 2014, 9:04 PM UTC

mtbcoder wrote: post #80

jMyles wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are being downvoted because people disagree. I'm not sure how I feel about the downvote button being used this way, but I also disagree with you. I wish that instead of downvoting, people will just explain their positions. For my part: Personally owned firearms are used for defense far more often than for aggression. The easiest scenario to picture is the one in which a sidearm is merely revealed (rather than bra…

Interesting points, do you have any sources though?

I don't, at least at the moment. Of the empirical claims I've made, I'm most interested in whether self-defense encounters that merely involve a "reveal" are typically effective and what their distribution is.

I didn't mean, though, to be empirical for the most part; I was just trying to jog the imagination about what "purely defensive" uses of firearms might look like.

Re: Partnering with Mozilla

#97

Post by 01Michael10 » Wed, Nov 12, 2014, 9:38 PM UTC

jMyles wrote: post #95

01Michael10 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I would have to disagree with just about everything you wrote... >The easiest scenario to picture is the one in which a sidearm is merely revealed (rather than brandished or fired) in order to deter an attacker. Huh? Where do you live where this scenario ever happens? I am 45 and lived in a major city half my life and not really in the best part of town. I have never had the need to reveal a weapon to a would b…

> I have never had the need to reveal a weapon to a would be attacker. If someone is going to mug me their weapon will be already pointed at me and revealing any weapon I have is just going to get me shot. I don't speak from personal experience; I've never owned a firearm. However, a number of my friends have had this experience. One possibility is that this is more important for women? A women, being threatened by a…

I have no idea what you are talking about "revealing" a weapon or why you would do that... If someone was flashing a gun in a public setting I would be calling the police. Oh wait, let me guess your friends get nervous when a "black" person walks near them so they have to "reveal" they are armed.

Funny, this was just in the news the other day... A man purchased a new gun and was flashing it. You guessed it, he was mugged at gun point by someone who wanted to upgrade his piece.

Re: Partnering with Mozilla

#98

Post by zobzu » Wed, Nov 12, 2014, 10:27 PM UTC

01Michael10 wrote: post #93

zobzu wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's your opinion. they're used as defensive weapons everywhere. your opinion is that its not effective.

Really? Just you saying they are defensive weapons makes it so? You remember that news story from a couple of years ago in Seattle (I think)... Four professionally trained and armed policemen sitting at a coffee shop and one person walks up and shoots them all dead? Their guns were useless... If we were living in movie world I would say guns are great defensive weapons because the good guys always know the bad guys a…

Yes. If you own a gun it doesn't mean that you're planning to shot anyone with it or that it's bound to happen. If you say you use it as a defense weapon and you actually do that (which is what a lot of gun owners in the USA say) then its a defensive weapon.

It's not about shooting back with lightning fast reflexes. It's dissuasion, or sometimes against wild life too. It also doesn't mean its going to save you every time either. Nothing works every single time, we'd know by now.

Of course its also used to kill. For homicides, what not. Heck flower pots are used for homicides too.

The point is that the decision is in the hands of the human behind the trigger, if guns didn't exist, they'd use swords. If sword's didn't exist, they'd use blunts. and so on.

Re: Partnering with Mozilla

#99

Post by jMyles » Thu, Nov 13, 2014, 12:38 AM UTC

01Michael10 wrote: post #97

jMyles wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have never had the need to reveal a weapon to a would be attacker. If someone is going to mug me their weapon will be already pointed at me and revealing any weapon I have is just going to get me shot. I don't speak from personal experience; I've never owned a firearm. However, a number of my friends have had this experience. One possibility is that this is more important for women? A women, being threatened by a…

I have no idea what you are talking about "revealing" a weapon or why you would do that... If someone was flashing a gun in a public setting I would be calling the police. Oh wait, let me guess your friends get nervous when a "black" person walks near them so they have to "reveal" they are armed. Funny, this was just in the news the other day... A man purchased a new gun and was flashing it. You guessed it, he was mu…

> Oh wait, let me guess your friends get nervous when a "black" person walks near them so they have to "reveal" they are armed.

What the hell is wrong with you?

This is shockingly presumptuous and divisive.

Re: Partnering with Mozilla

#100

Post by 01Michael10 » Thu, Nov 13, 2014, 3:26 AM UTC

zobzu wrote: post #98

01Michael10 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Just you saying they are defensive weapons makes it so? You remember that news story from a couple of years ago in Seattle (I think)... Four professionally trained and armed policemen sitting at a coffee shop and one person walks up and shoots them all dead? Their guns were useless... If we were living in movie world I would say guns are great defensive weapons because the good guys always know the bad guys a…

Yes. If you own a gun it doesn't mean that you're planning to shot anyone with it or that it's bound to happen. If you say you use it as a defense weapon and you actually do that (which is what a lot of gun owners in the USA say) then its a defensive weapon. It's not about shooting back with lightning fast reflexes. It's dissuasion, or sometimes against wild life too. It also doesn't mean its going to save you every…

Once again your comment has nothing to do with what I am talking about...

I am not making a moral judgment about guns. I am merely stating they are not defensive weapons as they not designed for that...

Swords? Well, if you had a sword and I had a sword it is possible for me to block your strikes with my sword. Guns? No gun blocks bullets...

Walking around with a gun offers one no protection (unless you have it drawn and ready to fire at all times then maybe) but a false sense of security as my real life examples illustrated. Now, if you want to shot someone dead, guns (I would not suggest flower pots) do work really well for that...