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Why College Is a Poor Choice for a Lot of People

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Re: Why College Is a Poor Choice for a Lot of People

#51
I recently stopped going to college (a few months ago). I've been thinking about the decision for around two years now and it was the best decision I've ever made. I have never been as productive and generally happy as I have after leaving classes.

What I agree most with the article is that college is not the correct decision for those who already know what they want to do or have a specific goal in mind. Attending classes for me felt like a waste of time simply because they did not push me towards my goal. It felt like I was lying to myself every day by going to class just to let society know that "I am going to college, I am doing the right thing". Once I completely (and I mean 1000%) stop giving a s#!t about what anyone else thought or said (including my family), I found myself to be happier, more confident, more motivated, more everything.

Now, everyone still tries to convince me that I should go back. That I never know what the future holds. Honestly, most of my friends who go their degree have jobs that require little of what they actually learned. Not only are they getting paid borderline a minimum wage but they are being routined to death. I'd say 80% are not happy in their day to day which is crazy. I really feel like if things were to get bad, I am perfectly employable without a degree. My projects and experience have taught me 1000x more than I ever learned in a classroom. Actually, I can say that 90%+ of what I know is through my own reading, my own project, my own initiative, my own everything.

My conclusion on the whole debate of college is that if you know what you want, go out there and get it. Just like there is a cost opportunity of not going to college, there is also cost opportunity to GOING. Think about it deeply and do as your intuition dictates.

Notes:

- I was majoring in business (marketing). I believe, at least in my case, this and many of the liberal arts majors are best learned by doing. If you really have a passion for it, grab some books and practice it. Whatever it may be. As for other studies like medicine, biology etc (the sciences) I've seen it is best to go and study it. My brother is doing medicine and I really don't see how it would be possible for him to not go to college and be able to do brain surgery.

- I love this phrase from the article and to me it is an issue I feel strongly about. Times have changed, we should too.

"The idea of college education is deeply ingrained in our culture. People seem to go down the college route almost impulsively and the correctness of this path is, for most, unquestionable."

People who have accepted the fact that I dropped out, that see why the decision for me was correct, that are proud of the work and value I am producing, will still try to convince me to go back. I don't blame anyone for this, I think we were all brought up since babies to believe that college is the way to go. I just feel we need to question this belief a lot more. - Great article!

Re: Why College Is a Poor Choice for a Lot of People

#52
post #11

Try listing Kahn Academy or free open online classes/certificates on a resume. The only reason I went to college was so I could be taken seriously and offered a job in my career. Before graduating I had 0 calls backs, after I started listing a completed degree I had many many call backs. College may be a poor choice for some, but if you dont want to get stuck waiting tables or making coffee then its a sure bet with t…

Experience matters much more than degree in the web dev/ops field. The tricky issue with foregoing college is you have to get experience first, and without experience you likely won't get a corporate position. Networking, open source activity, volunteering, freelancing, and personal projects can help to get that first foot in the door. A year of real experience is more important than 4 years of college, imho.

With the right networking and projects in the high school years, you can have a position waiting on you and then have 4 years experience under your belt before you'd have graduated college. For some people, this will make more sense (and cents) than the college route.

There's a lot of people with college degrees waiting tables, but very few people with software or operations experience have a hard time finding work, regardless of their college education status.

Re: Why College Is a Poor Choice for a Lot of People

#54
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, a college degree unfortunately at times is basically a proxy for an intelligence test, a way to filter out job applicants. It is a signifier - this person did well enough in school to get into and through college. I'm not judging it in itself as bad or good. It does explain why, however, colleges can get away with poor teaching and little learning on the part of students sometimes (see the book Academically Ad…

Is it a proxy for an intelligence test or as a way to judge if someone has the dedication to commit to completing a substantial project/undertaking (such as 4 years of college)? I think the latter explanation is consistent with the rest of your comment. I suppose it could be both, though.

Getting admitted is a proxy for an IQ test. Getting through is a proxy for being able to grind on tasks. Both are useful job skills. (My job is intellectually satisfying, but also involves writing reports that really can be described as a grind.)

Re: Why College Is a Poor Choice for a Lot of People

#55
post #37

Most people don't know what they want to do with their lives at age 18, whether or not they think they do. The strongest argument against college is an unmanageable amount of debt, which can haunt you for decades, and I have many friends who suffer from this. The strongest argument for college is the connections you can make which will be with you for life. I know countless people who can trace their career opportuni…

"people they met in college" For those of us who went to school, think back on the people you hang out with... did you sit next to them in class or meet them in clubs / parties / internships? The people I met outside classrooms ended up being more important than the people I met inside classrooms. There might be a pretty strong argument for skipping school and doing a 4-year internship, getting a job, or simply livin…

You are right about that, but you also have to make a conscious decision to become more extroverted. This is a subject that takes effort and is really hard for some people.

When I was at that age wasn't even aware what I was missing out. College just pushed me into an environment without me having to put much effort into becoming more social.

Re: Why College Is a Poor Choice for a Lot of People

#58
The article is written from the perspective of someone who has not enjoyed the benefits of a college education: The premise is that at ~17 years old (or any age), people know what to learn and how to learn it.

Good college educations require a diversity of classes so students can learn from and about the incredible diversity of valuable ideas and knowledge. The belief that you already know what you want and can dismiss the rest is ignorant and arrogant (usually one follows the other). If you believe that, you most need a college education -- open-mindedness, an intellectual humility, and the desire to seek challenges to your ideas are hallmarks of the well-educated and are major benefit of good college educations; the more I learn the more humble I become! As Richard Feynman said, "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself -- and you are the easiest person to fool."

College has requirements regarding what and how you learn because they know more about it than you do, and would be shortchanging you if they did otherwise. Does a good developer let clients design their own solutions or let them choose bad ones? The educators are experts in their fields and in education; they have experience with thousands (at large universities, even millions) of people getting educations, research on learning, and much more. What do you know about it? I'm not saying that their ideas are all correct, correct for you, or shouldn't be challenged, but it's foolish to discard them wholesale.

The DIY hacker myth is exciting -- people will do it all themselves -- it's the old American rugged individualism. People who follow it limit themselves to their own imaginations, rather than the combined imaginations of a university full of smart people (including fellow students). You can't even imagine what you don't know; if you are dismissing whole fields then you are not even looking.

College is not for everyone, but that's a meaningless truism used as an excuse. The more intellectually able and curious you are, the more an institution full of very smart highly-educated people, experts in their fields, willing to spend months teaching you, waiting for you to walk into their offices and ask them questions, should appeal to you.

Re: Why College Is a Poor Choice for a Lot of People

#59
post #48

Somewhat of an aside, but: If you're a self-directed learner passionate about a subject nothing about a classroom holds you back . [1] It sets a minimum pace for acquiring new information, it sets a minimum domain of concepts and to some degree it will influence the order of the first few concepts you'll have to tackle, if you concede to only tackle the subject when the class begins. I'm endlessly bemused by the repe…

Indeed, a classroom also gives you access to a very valuable resource: proximity to an expert in the field. Of course, this depends on what sort of school you attend but in my experience if you show dedication and passion in a subject, it is pretty easy to get to know a professor and open a lot of doors that way.

Re: Why College Is a Poor Choice for a Lot of People

#60
Well, naturally everything you learn in college is well-known and available very cheaply. The question is how are you going to know what there is out there? I was pretty set on Engineering, and I knew it had something to do with math and something to do with technology, but there's plenty of things that I hadn't seen until I started: Control Theory, Materials, etc.

It's also not easy to know which things are considered important, and which are considered marginal. What should a course in economics contain? If I were to look at the things I've read on the internet, it would be half Austrian Economics, and barely any micro.

There's also a cost issue. Let's start with time. When I look back, everything academic in college could have been squeezed into 2 years. (Three terms of 8 weeks for 4 years.) Now I wouldn't say I'd have a better idea of what to do at age 20 rather than age 22, but looking back I'd rather have the 2 years. I've found numerous ways to do the other stuff you do in college. It's much easier to socialize when you are making a bit of money. And much easier to get a good mix of people when you're not constrained to people roughly your own age, doing something very similar. (Of course you aren't forced to hang out with people at your institution. You just assume you should.)

Then there's money. When I went, the UK system was cheap. Now it's 9K GBP, which is a lot for many people. The US system is quite pricey. There are plenty of stories about people who owe $100K, which really ties your hands when it comes to what to do after. You can't even declare bankruptcy, so you'd better not take too big risks.

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