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Why College Is a Poor Choice for a Lot of People

levinotik.com

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Re: Why College Is a Poor Choice for a Lot of People

#31

Post by edtechdev »

wil421 wrote: post #11

Try listing Kahn Academy or free open online classes/certificates on a resume. The only reason I went to college was so I could be taken seriously and offered a job in my career. Before graduating I had 0 calls backs, after I started listing a completed degree I had many many call backs. College may be a poor choice for some, but if you dont want to get stuck waiting tables or making coffee then its a sure bet with t…

Right, a college degree unfortunately at times is basically a proxy for an intelligence test, a way to filter out job applicants. It is a signifier - this person did well enough in school to get into and through college. I'm not judging it in itself as bad or good. It does explain why, however, colleges can get away with poor teaching and little learning on the part of students sometimes (see the book Academically Adrift), and why there is of course a huge bias toward hiring students from more prestigious (selective) colleges.

Re: Why College Is a Poor Choice for a Lot of People

#32

Post by sremani »

The point is many people go to college and end up at "Enterprise Rent A Car" or T-mobile Store. Is it even justifiable for a person to have take student loans and end up those kinds of jobs. There is true problem here, you do not need college if you are "learning for learning sake" and your college degree does not give bang for a buck if you are going to college to end up in a general job. There are exceptions. I agree with the author.

Re: Why College Is a Poor Choice for a Lot of People

#33

Post by wil421 »

_RPM wrote: post #19
wil421 wrote: post #11

Try listing Kahn Academy or free open online classes/certificates on a resume. The only reason I went to college was so I could be taken seriously and offered a job in my career. Before graduating I had 0 calls backs, after I started listing a completed degree I had many many call backs. College may be a poor choice for some, but if you dont want to get stuck waiting tables or making coffee then its a sure bet with t…

May I ask what you majored in?

Information Systems, but I had web development skills before graduation. I just didnt have job experience and no one willing to give experience until I had my degree in hand.

Re: Why College Is a Poor Choice for a Lot of People

#34

Post by humanrebar »

wil421 wrote: post #11

Try listing Kahn Academy or free open online classes/certificates on a resume. The only reason I went to college was so I could be taken seriously and offered a job in my career. Before graduating I had 0 calls backs, after I started listing a completed degree I had many many call backs. College may be a poor choice for some, but if you dont want to get stuck waiting tables or making coffee then its a sure bet with t…

I think you're probably right from the perspective of a prospective employee.

That being said, having these sorts of discussion may sway employers to have a more open mind to non-traditional ways to become qualified for employment. And if that starts to happen, a B.S. or B.A. will stop being a litmus test and start being one path towards qualification for a job or a career.

This is actually a serious problem. If change in technology and the job market continues to accelerate (will there be long-haul truck drivers in 15 years?), we need to be able to retrain people without demanding four years of full-time education and massive student loans.

Re: Why College Is a Poor Choice for a Lot of People

#35

Post by wil421 »

k__ wrote: post #29
wil421 wrote: post #11

Try listing Kahn Academy or free open online classes/certificates on a resume. The only reason I went to college was so I could be taken seriously and offered a job in my career. Before graduating I had 0 calls backs, after I started listing a completed degree I had many many call backs. College may be a poor choice for some, but if you dont want to get stuck waiting tables or making coffee then its a sure bet with t…

I know what you mean. After I got a bachelor in computer science I made about 4 times as much as before. Later I started a master while still working. Just on the side, for fun, because the work was kinda boring. When my boss heard of it, he wanted to promote me. He didn't even know what I studied or if it was a good master program...

I have been thinking about getting into a master program next year. Been thinking of doing it on the side too but maybe I should let my employer know.

Glad to hear it kinda worked out!

Re: Why College Is a Poor Choice for a Lot of People

#36

Post by vinceguidry »

Kitesage wrote: post #16
vinceguidry wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The problem domain is more complicated than can be understood and modeled by an 18-year old.

I agree with this. Granted this is anecdotal evidence, but I recently graduated from college with a degree in computer science. In high school, I had no classes on computer science. I wouldn't even know where to start nor would I be able to model myself an educational framework to understand computer science as well as college taught me. Now even though high school taught me the framework required to learn a new skil…

I had the ability to pick up new skills myself when I was that age. I taught myself how to program at 10. I was making websites at 15-16. I didn't need school to teach me how to learn. But that's not all school offers. Without a degree, you either have to figure out how to demonstrate your worth as an employee to someone by yourself bypassing all the usual social signalling, or you have to figure out how to be an entrepreneur, again without the benefit of the institutions we already have that evolved to fix this very problem.

Evolution doesn't create perfect solutions to problems, college is by no means perfect, but they do create effective ones, whereas designed solutions often aren't effective because they didn't take into advantage some important premise or edge case. Take this into account when you design the path you're going to take through your early twenties.

Re: Why College Is a Poor Choice for a Lot of People

#37

Post by VLM »

whiddershins wrote: post #22

Most people don't know what they want to do with their lives at age 18, whether or not they think they do. The strongest argument against college is an unmanageable amount of debt, which can haunt you for decades, and I have many friends who suffer from this. The strongest argument for college is the connections you can make which will be with you for life. I know countless people who can trace their career opportuni…

"people they met in college"

For those of us who went to school, think back on the people you hang out with... did you sit next to them in class or meet them in clubs / parties / internships? The people I met outside classrooms ended up being more important than the people I met inside classrooms.

There might be a pretty strong argument for skipping school and doing a 4-year internship, getting a job, or simply living in an apartment in the student area of a big school. I'm claiming that unless the school is in a horrifically high crime area, nobody checks for school IDs at the LISP club meeting or the guest speaker lecture or the frat party or the language conference or the local 2600 meeting or classroom lectures. When I moved to a new area for work I checked out the local schools, couldn't get a tour to fit my schedule, crashed a history lecture, just walked in one day and sat down, pretty awesome experience, so I signed up. This might sound too extroverted for some people but I assure you it was less terrifying than public speaking.

Also there's go to school full time vs my strategy of Saturday morning part time. I met just as many people, if not more, and taking one class at a time is pretty cheap compared to going "all in". Or you can audit either for free or nearly free.

Re: Why College Is a Poor Choice for a Lot of People

#38

Post by waps »

The author's linkedin page : https://www.linkedin.com/in/levinotik

Education Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law, Yeshiva University

I wonder if he chose his field himself, or if his parents picked for him, and now he rolled into software development by himself, resenting his parents' choice.

Quick creative application of the legal principle called "Cui bono".

Re: Why College Is a Poor Choice for a Lot of People

#39

Post by privong »

edtechdev wrote: post #31
wil421 wrote: post #11

Try listing Kahn Academy or free open online classes/certificates on a resume. The only reason I went to college was so I could be taken seriously and offered a job in my career. Before graduating I had 0 calls backs, after I started listing a completed degree I had many many call backs. College may be a poor choice for some, but if you dont want to get stuck waiting tables or making coffee then its a sure bet with t…

Right, a college degree unfortunately at times is basically a proxy for an intelligence test, a way to filter out job applicants. It is a signifier - this person did well enough in school to get into and through college. I'm not judging it in itself as bad or good. It does explain why, however, colleges can get away with poor teaching and little learning on the part of students sometimes (see the book Academically Ad…

Is it a proxy for an intelligence test or as a way to judge if someone has the dedication to commit to completing a substantial project/undertaking (such as 4 years of college)? I think the latter explanation is consistent with the rest of your comment. I suppose it could be both, though.

Re: Why College Is a Poor Choice for a Lot of People

#40

Post by vinbreau »

wil421 wrote: post #11

Try listing Kahn Academy or free open online classes/certificates on a resume. The only reason I went to college was so I could be taken seriously and offered a job in my career. Before graduating I had 0 calls backs, after I started listing a completed degree I had many many call backs. College may be a poor choice for some, but if you dont want to get stuck waiting tables or making coffee then its a sure bet with t…

My resume shows I went to an art academy for two years. I worked in art for almost a decade after school but the pay was abysmal no matter what I did. I am technically inclined and a self-taught coder and was able to get a tech job by demonstrating ability during an interview. I doubt my schooling had much to do with it. My trajectory for the last 14 years has brought me to work for a F500 company as a process engineer doing light dev work. I do not believe my Assoc. degree in Fine Art had much to do with it though. Combining tech with art meant that even as a struggling artist I was making enough to never have to wait tables or make coffee.
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