Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why College Is a Poor Choice for a Lot of People

levinotik.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 96 posts

Re: Why College Is a Poor Choice for a Lot of People

#21

Post by cm2012 »

navait wrote: post #8

The assumption that college is a four year commitment is absurd. AP classes mean you can get credit in high school, or the CLEP test allows adults to quickly get credit for classes. Community Colleges allow you to transfer credits. You can take extra classes, often at no extra cost. It's only 4 years if you go in taking the absolute minimum amount of full-time credits to get the degree.

Very few people, % wise, finish in under 4 years. The average is much closer to 6 years (http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2013/aug/11/r...). You may be in a bubble of extreme high achievers that makes it hard to see the reality of most people. And that's data from all tiers combined, not just low tier schools (does that mean non-ivy?).

Re: Why College Is a Poor Choice for a Lot of People

#22

Post by whiddershins »

Most people don't know what they want to do with their lives at age 18, whether or not they think they do.

The strongest argument against college is an unmanageable amount of debt, which can haunt you for decades, and I have many friends who suffer from this.

The strongest argument for college is the connections you can make which will be with you for life. I know countless people who can trace their career opportunities back to people they met in college, whether or not they even graduated.

Both factors can be overcome. You can pay off your debt diligently, or attend a school that is so cheap this is a non-issue. You can make connections other ways. But you will pay a price one way or another.

In my opinion those two things are the fundamental factors that determine whether or not going to college is a good idea, and should be the main considerations that help you decide whether or not to go. Every other aspect of this discussion seems like a giant red herring.

Re: Why College Is a Poor Choice for a Lot of People

#23

Post by ugexe »

navait wrote: post #8

The assumption that college is a four year commitment is absurd. AP classes mean you can get credit in high school, or the CLEP test allows adults to quickly get credit for classes. Community Colleges allow you to transfer credits. You can take extra classes, often at no extra cost. It's only 4 years if you go in taking the absolute minimum amount of full-time credits to get the degree.

I have to disagree as someone who took all AP classes in high school but couldn't afford to take the tests at the end. I guess if your parents aren't poor or you're otherwise able to get them financed sure, but not everyone has that luxury.

Re: Why College Is a Poor Choice for a Lot of People

#24

Post by dbond »

This is the choice I made (UK based) and 5 years later I can say I'm doing fine and have no regrets. But what does concern me is the way college[1] staff reacted to this decision, from warnings in one to one chats down to outright scaremongering that I was throwing my life away even though I had explained that I could not find a course that I felt would be of value or advance my knowledge in what I WANTED to do. This is the same situation my younger sister is currently facing, she would much rather pursue the apprenticeship route to gain practical experience (she is wanting to pursue events management) but her college keeps pushing her back to the university route offering little to no support for her choice and the provided tools for finding apprenticeships or opportunities are next to useless.

Thankfully my family has a history of self-employment so for us convincing family that it is the right path is not difficult, but with colleges acting as very persistent recruiters for universities this will be a very hard decision to make for a lot of people as the advisors parents listen to are saying it is not a viable option.

[1] For those unfamiliar with the UK system college is attended separately before university.

Re: Why College Is a Poor Choice for a Lot of People

#25

Post by navait »

ugexe wrote: post #23
navait wrote: post #8

The assumption that college is a four year commitment is absurd. AP classes mean you can get credit in high school, or the CLEP test allows adults to quickly get credit for classes. Community Colleges allow you to transfer credits. You can take extra classes, often at no extra cost. It's only 4 years if you go in taking the absolute minimum amount of full-time credits to get the degree.

I have to disagree as someone who took all AP classes in high school but couldn't afford to take the tests at the end. I guess if your parents aren't poor or you're otherwise able to get them financed sure, but not everyone has that luxury.

College Board offers programs to subsidize the cost of the test. In any case, the AP test generally mirrors the CLEP as well, so you can take that.

Re: Why College Is a Poor Choice for a Lot of People

#26

Post by navait »

cm2012 wrote: post #21
navait wrote: post #8

The assumption that college is a four year commitment is absurd. AP classes mean you can get credit in high school, or the CLEP test allows adults to quickly get credit for classes. Community Colleges allow you to transfer credits. You can take extra classes, often at no extra cost. It's only 4 years if you go in taking the absolute minimum amount of full-time credits to get the degree.

Very few people, % wise, finish in under 4 years. The average is much closer to 6 years ( http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2013/aug/11/r... ). You may be in a bubble of extreme high achievers that makes it hard to see the reality of most people. And that's data from all tiers combined, not just low tier schools (does that mean non-ivy?).

But the article is about people who are high achievers.

Re: Why College Is a Poor Choice for a Lot of People

#27

Post by jayvanguard »

I agree with this from a CS perspective but I don't think the argument extends to other fields necessarily.

Part of what college gets you and a la cart self-learning doesn't as easily is the confidence that you know what you don't know. That is also why employers prefer a degree. It tells them you have a complete base of knowledge that was well thought out.

The reason this doesn't work in CS is because practice is so far ahead of the academy in most areas. In other fields, such as physics and history this is not the case.

Re: Why College Is a Poor Choice for a Lot of People

#29

Post by k__ »

wil421 wrote: post #11

Try listing Kahn Academy or free open online classes/certificates on a resume. The only reason I went to college was so I could be taken seriously and offered a job in my career. Before graduating I had 0 calls backs, after I started listing a completed degree I had many many call backs. College may be a poor choice for some, but if you dont want to get stuck waiting tables or making coffee then its a sure bet with t…

I know what you mean.

After I got a bachelor in computer science I made about 4 times as much as before.

Later I started a master while still working. Just on the side, for fun, because the work was kinda boring.

When my boss heard of it, he wanted to promote me.

He didn't even know what I studied or if it was a good master program...

Re: Why College Is a Poor Choice for a Lot of People

#30

Post by scott_s »

vinceguidry wrote: post #3

> “There’s no reason not to…” is not a positive argument for anything. It not be a positive argument, but it does set a floor for considering alternatives. Whatever you do end up choosing to do with your post-high school years, if it's not college, has to beat what college offers you. There's a lot to consider. Are you good at motivating yourself to do stuff? Can you think usefully at a high level? Can you chart your…

Good, measured comment on a subtle issue.

The difficulty with not going into a formal program for an area you already have exposure to (say, physics, computer science, finance) is that for most people, at 17, you don't know what you don't know. The benefit of a curriculum is that the larger community you wish to enter has already figured out: this is the minimum knowledge people need to work with us.

Personally, I did not know what I did not know, and I sincerely doubt I would have learned on my own what I did learn, without the guidance of course curricula. Even though I work as a computer scientists, and most of my education is in computer science, I am enormously happy that I also minored in physics in college. I learned just enough to appreciate it (hopefully) better than the layman. On my own, I doubt that would have happened.

Post reply on HN