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Partnering with Mozilla

blog.torproject.org

71–80 of 104 posts

Re: Partnering with Mozilla

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that you do not make the distinction between a regular relay and an exit node. There are enough regular relays in the tor network, but people hesitate running exit nodes because of the legal liabilities: many ISPs do not want you to run a tor exit node, because of the nature of some traffic coming through the tor network (illegal marketplaces, child porn, etc -- as you can read in the article, even Moz…

I agree that it's too crazy for Mozilla to seriously consider it. But, assuming Tor did receive widespread adoption of exit nodes at this scale, the internet would have to adapt to accommodate this many people rerouting other people's traffic. ISPs would encounter the same backlash for throttling or blocking users who run exit nodes as they currently face when doing it to users running Netflix. Unfortunately, it take…

"The law just has to change to adapt to our new technical ways" ist a common fallacy with techies. And has been working /splendidly/ for decades now.

More importantly, letting every of your users out in the rain with his legal problems until you have finally been successful in changing the law is not a recommended way to treat your users.

Re: Partnering with Mozilla

#72
post #36
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anonymity can be used to assault, too.

...and guns to defend.

I think it's disingenuous to classify guns as defensive weapons even if they can be "used in defense".

Defensive weapons are armour, masks, shields or even boots with steel-capped toes. Shields and boots can actually be used as offensive weapons (like anonymity according to the GP) but are primarily defensive. They are primarily intended to deflect or mitigate harm.

Guns, knives, batons and even less-than-lethal weapons like pepperspray, water cannons, tear gas and tasers are offensive weapons. They are primarily intended to inflict (permanent or temporary) harm.

The defensive capabilities of offensive weapons consist of displaying them for intimidation (i.e. a threat to inflict harm, which is obviously an offensive act) and their use to inflict harm against an aggressor in self-defense (which is again about inflicting harm and therefore offensive). Their purely defensive capabilities are trivial (e.g. using a rifle stock to parry an attack in hand-to-hand combat) and at best secondary to their offensive ones.

Also note that every offensive weapon can be used to intimidate or in self-defense. A knife may not be very useful for intimidation in a gun fight and a megaton nuclear device may not be very useful for personal self-defense (unless you consider pre-emptive strikes an act of self-defense and even then you want some distance between you and the "aggressor"), so they could all be classified as defensive if we were to use the muddier definition you seem to suggest (i.e. defensive weapon = a weapon that can be used defensively).

Whether defensive weapons are (or should be) considered weapons at all is a matter of jurisdiction (I only know about the situation in Germany) but generally the idea is that defensive weapons are classified as weapons because they're only useful in a fight and you wouldn't use them if you weren't intending to get involved in a fight (this is why they may be illegal to carry/wear in a demonstration, for example).

This distinction may be a cultural thing, though. By this definition a "personal defense weapon" or even a self-defense weapon like a taser or pepper spray is actually an offensive weapon rather than a defensive one. This certainly works with the anonymity analogy (concealing your identity is not in itself a means to inflict harm, although it can aid in the success of doing so or in avoiding punishment), so I think this is what the GP had in mind.

Re: Partnering with Mozilla

#73
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As hackuser says elsewhere, Tor is not really a fire-and-forget security solution. My understanding is that in order to use it without compromising yourself you need to have a fairly sophisticated understanding of its limitations.

That could easily change with the help of a well funded team like Mozilla.

It couldn't. It'd take a fundamental re-architecture of Tor to implement a solution, but you also actually have to solve the problem, which is pretty hard too.

Re: Partnering with Mozilla

#74
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering TOR was paid for by the US government I think your concerns might be misplaced. That or TOR is a massive Honneypot and .... NO CARRIER

Several of the rifles that individuals in the US can own were also developed by the US government!

The difference, of course, being that guns are much less complicated than anonymity software, and that only the gun designs are from the military, not necessarily the manufacturer, distributor, retailer, or anyone else that ever actually touched your physical weapon. The Tor project is still governed by a lab that takes government funding, and that can bias its decisions because it creates misaligned incentives.

I'm not a tinfoil guy re: Tor, but you have to admit that the purchase of a government-designed gun is a lot easier to validate for reasonable safety than Tor.

Re: Partnering with Mozilla

#75

I'm guessing Mozilla's Tor middle relays will soon be a part of PRISM

PRISM operates on a completely different layer than Tor. Tor does NOTHING to protect you from PRISM, and using Tor can be much less safe than just using your direct connection.

http://www.deseret-tech.com/journal/psa-tor-exposes-all-traf...

Re: Partnering with Mozilla

#76
"Mozilla will help address this by hosting high-capacity Tor middle relays" Mozzila has my trust (at least for now), but concentrating large part of Tor infrastructure in a single point inside USA jurisdiction does not seem like a good and future proof idea.

Re: Partnering with Mozilla

#77
post #76

"Mozilla will help address this by hosting high-capacity Tor middle relays" Mozzila has my trust (at least for now), but concentrating large part of Tor infrastructure in a single point inside USA jurisdiction does not seem like a good and future proof idea.

Won't these high capacity middle relays eventually become fast guards (and because of the new flag assignment process, possibly both guards and exit relays simultaneously) or can the directory authorities restrict flag assignments even if the relay is eligible? By "can" I mean "should they" I suppose?

Re: Partnering with Mozilla

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That could easily change with the help of a well funded team like Mozilla.

A lot of internet usage is logging in to Email, FB. If you do that an attacker knows that this particular user is you . Not sure how that can be "fixed" easily. To recap the current situation: You need to run a normal browser (for convenience) for facebooking (of course running NoScript, Ghostery, RequestPolicy etc.) and the Tor browser for researching things you don't want to be associated with your identity (yet no…

"A lot of internet usage is logging in to Email, FB. If you do that an attacker knows that this particular user is you. Not sure how that can be "fixed" easily."

When data is inputted to a HTML-form an alert could pop up. "Disclosing your login details may compromise your privacy" At least that would educate users, similarly as the warning text on Chromes New Tab incognito page.

Re: Partnering with Mozilla

#79
post #36
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anonymity can be used to assault, too.

...and guns to defend.

All this infighting is certainly not helping civil rights. I'm not amercian, but a EFF-ACLU-NRA-SPLC-AI would be a great thing. Right now the civil rights and their proponents are played off against each other, and the rest of the world is suffering from this, too.

Re: Partnering with Mozilla

#80
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guns are NOT defensive weapons... You could be standing in the Starbucks line with any weapon of your choosing and I can just walk up to you and pull out a pistol and splatter your brains across the counter. No problem... EDIT - Why is my off-topic comment with an argument being down-voted in a reply to a off-topic statement with no argument is not? There must be a lot of gun lovers on Hacker News...

You are being downvoted because people disagree. I'm not sure how I feel about the downvote button being used this way, but I also disagree with you. I wish that instead of downvoting, people will just explain their positions. For my part: Personally owned firearms are used for defense far more often than for aggression. The easiest scenario to picture is the one in which a sidearm is merely revealed (rather than bra…

Interesting points, do you have any sources though?
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