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Bringing SSD Performance to the DIMM form factor

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Re: Bringing SSD Performance to the DIMM form factor

#61
post #53
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they are, because the storage isn't arbitrarily small. There is always the latency of distance to overcome. That includes the centimeters to your main memory. There's always going to be a capacity-latency tradeoff.

That's a bit pedantic, though. The unavoidable tradeoffs are a pretty small part of the total that we're dealing with now.

L1 Cache is an order of magnitude faster than L2 cache and that's still all on the same chip. That's not "a pretty small part".

Energy consumption, heat dissipation, all of this becomes a larger problem for smaller structures. It's just easier and less error prone to build larger structures, yields are higher, so costs are lower for larger structures.

I'm certain the tradeoffs will change, but it's all limited by some physical law and while we can sometimes trade one law against the other, we can't currently break them, so tradeoffs will always exist.

Re: Bringing SSD Performance to the DIMM form factor

#62
post #40
post #3

I can't wait to see the programming paradigm of memory vs permanent storage begin to blur in the next 5 or so years. It's going to make some major assumptions about how you program stuff change quite significantly and it's really exciting.

HP is already working on this with what they're calling "The Machine". They're writing a new OS around the new storage technologies with the understanding that it might not make sense to separate RAM from disk pretty soon here. They've also suggested that they'll be porting versions of Linux and Android to this platform. Of course, all of this is pretty marketing heavy and not a lot of details have been released, so…

I am not sure it is even a real project. I tried to find anyone working on it and failed. Nice story though.

Re: Bringing SSD Performance to the DIMM form factor

#63
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need not just OS support but specific motherboard too. Currently AFAIK this is only supported on SuperMicro dev kits.

Wouldn't mounting the RAM stick as a ramdisk be enough though?

I don't think any current consumer (or enterprise for that matter) conventional motherboard has support for such a large stick. Plus I imagine that this stick will implement some different protocols/whatever to be able to be used directly as a drive

Re: Bringing SSD Performance to the DIMM form factor

#64
post #38

What would be the advantage of this comparing to PCIe/M.2 PCIe SSDs? Is it all about reduced latency, i.e. very small reads/writes would benefit?

>The benefit of using a DDR3 interface instead of SATA/SAS or PCIe is lower latency because the SSDs sit closer to the CPU. The memory interface has also been designed with parallelism in mind and can thus take greater advantage of multiple drives without sacrificing performance or latency. SanDisk claims write latency of less then five microseconds, which is lower than what even PCIe SSDs offer (e.g. Intel SSD DC P3…

Although it is apparently implemented via Sata on the module so there is scope to speed it up more.

Re: Bringing SSD Performance to the DIMM form factor

#65
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need not just OS support but specific motherboard too. Currently AFAIK this is only supported on SuperMicro dev kits.

Wouldn't mounting the RAM stick as a ramdisk be enough though?

You can't address a specific RAM stick, typically.

Try and boot an OS without knowledge of this, and it'll start using the stick like it uses RAM. It'll take orders of magnitude longer to boot, to the point of impracticality, probably (I haven't calculated).

The OS needs to understand the memory map, and at the minimum exclude use of the stick for "normal" operations.

Then, it needs to expose the stick for access - preferably in a way that is more usable than /proc/mem.

Re: Bringing SSD Performance to the DIMM form factor

#66
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When they work (there is to much cash on the table for them not too), they'll completely change the way we think of volatile and non-volatile memory. Since all memory will be non-volatile. It'll be a huge paradigm shift in storage and IO speed.

.. and possibly give viruses more places to hide?

Unlikely. Unless we start making file systems different.

Re: Bringing SSD Performance to the DIMM form factor

#67
post #3

I can't wait to see the programming paradigm of memory vs permanent storage begin to blur in the next 5 or so years. It's going to make some major assumptions about how you program stuff change quite significantly and it's really exciting.

How is this different than IBM's single store model? Memory and disk are addressed as one with hardware providing the protection needed in case of component or system failure.

Unless your writing at the machine level I really do not see the need for most programmers to ever concern themselves with storage, that should be the work of the underlying machine code and/or OS.

Re: Bringing SSD Performance to the DIMM form factor

#68
post #54
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose the main usage will be a RAMDISK mounted partition which will not lose its data on Server reboot, power loss or when program is not running. I don't think this SSD can be accessed through regular SCSI, IDE, AHCI controllers. http://www.sandisk.com.br/enterprise/ulltradimm-ssd/

Yes it would be very cool to have the entire operating system in SSD. Literally flick the computer on and it's running ;) Or flick rapidly between Linux and Windows. That makes me think it might be wise to have a manager to do this. E.g. leave the disks accessible between three+ operating systems.

Yes it would be very cool to have the entire operating system in SSD. Literally flick the computer on and it's running ;)

Isn't that what you already get with suspension to memory (S3)? At least on my Debian laptop, it's ready before the lid is fully up.

Re: Bringing SSD Performance to the DIMM form factor

#69
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need not just OS support but specific motherboard too. Currently AFAIK this is only supported on SuperMicro dev kits.

Wouldn't mounting the RAM stick as a ramdisk be enough though?

Maybe mounting a tmpfs partition on it?

Re: Bringing SSD Performance to the DIMM form factor

#70
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HP is already working on this with what they're calling "The Machine". They're writing a new OS around the new storage technologies with the understanding that it might not make sense to separate RAM from disk pretty soon here. They've also suggested that they'll be porting versions of Linux and Android to this platform. Of course, all of this is pretty marketing heavy and not a lot of details have been released, so…

I am not sure it is even a real project. I tried to find anyone working on it and failed. Nice story though.

It must be related to their work on memristors which is why they should probably keep it a secret for a while.
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