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If money doesn't make you happy, you probably aren't spending it right (2010) [pdf]

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Re: If money doesn't make you happy, you probably aren't spending it right (2010) [pdf]

#141

Post by sytelus »

michokest wrote: post #26

Last year I sold some stock from my last startup, a little over $1m after taxes, and I can say it's definitely changed things for the better. In this period of time, I have been able to: - Quit my founder position at that startup (thus avoiding potentially being tied to vesting or retention clauses, in case of an acquisition) - Own my house, and invest in a few other apartments, which turned into a little side busine…

Money can increase your effective lifespan. A typical billionair has a staff of about 100 people who take care of all the small things that otherwise sip away time from whatever is left over for normal people after work day. They do not have to worry about doing laundry or tidy up the house or even shopping their own cloths (they have concierge who monitors trends and knows your preferences and sends you whole bunch of cloths to try out on demand). They don't typically waste time in booking a travel or wait for a flight or taxi or waiting for coffee at Starbucks. All these "chores" and "waits" out of the way, they can focus on pure experiences and living it up to do exactly what they want. A typical billionair has capability to have 20X more life experiences than a regular guy. So in effect they can live equivalent of 20 lifetimes in same amount of lifespan.

Of course, in reality things don't pan out exactly like that. Many superrich would eventually be too stressed, constantly keeping scope of their wealth, spend 18 hours a day in work that likely won't be relevant in just a decade, end up in divorce or become substance abusive. But what is interesting to me is that money can actually expand your effective lifespan.

Re: If money doesn't make you happy, you probably aren't spending it right (2010) [pdf]

#142

Post by coldtea »

emotionalcode wrote: post #120
Retric wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your taking this well outside of the 'spending disposable money to increase personal happiness’ discussion. Remember this is in reference to the idea people don't become happier as they spend money because their spending it poorly. As such is reasonable to talk about heuristics vs getting tied into specifics.

I am questioning whether the definition of the heuristics influence the outcome. Self fulfilling prophecies and such. Specifics are necessary because it can determine whether something is a fundamental property of a thing, how it influences the definition of a thing, how that definition influences the perception of a thing, and the relationships that thing has with other things. A heuristic requires specifics to be d…

Maybe, but then you ventured off to outliers and special cases.

What we want the heuristic for is the average case that you dismissed, which covers the majority of us. There is indeed a thing as a large majority with mostly similar experiences and status, not just an collection of unique snowflakes.

Re: If money doesn't make you happy, you probably aren't spending it right (2010) [pdf]

#143

Post by bcgraham »

wiredfool wrote: post #118
wtracy wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a valid strategy to not sweat the individual purchases, but watch your bank account and track your overall burn rate, then adjust if necessary.

FWIW, about 5 months ago, my family started sweating the small things. It's changed our burn rate by ~25%, from disturbingly over income to comfortably under income. Looking back now, our happiness level is pretty much at the same point. We can't really tell what we we're missing, although I know there are things.

Keep your eyes on the pennies. The dollars will take care of themselves.

Re: If money doesn't make you happy, you probably aren't spending it right (2010) [pdf]

#144

Post by emotionalcode »

coldtea wrote: post #142
emotionalcode wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am questioning whether the definition of the heuristics influence the outcome. Self fulfilling prophecies and such. Specifics are necessary because it can determine whether something is a fundamental property of a thing, how it influences the definition of a thing, how that definition influences the perception of a thing, and the relationships that thing has with other things. A heuristic requires specifics to be d…

Maybe, but then you ventured off to outliers and special cases. What we want the heuristic for is the average case that you dismissed, which covers the majority of us. There is indeed a thing as a large majority with mostly similar experiences and status, not just an collection of unique snowflakes.

I didn't dismiss it. My point is that theorizing over whether money leads to happiness doesn't take into account the absence of money acting as an obstacle to happiness. The heuristic is psychologically leading in that it does not make the distinction of what happiness is. Happiness can be relatively defined from personal experience. In order to analyze this any further, I'd have to examine the studies to see how the definition and interpretation of happiness is controlled.

Re: If money doesn't make you happy, you probably aren't spending it right (2010) [pdf]

#145

Post by Retric »

emotionalcode wrote: post #144
coldtea wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but then you ventured off to outliers and special cases. What we want the heuristic for is the average case that you dismissed, which covers the majority of us. There is indeed a thing as a large majority with mostly similar experiences and status, not just an collection of unique snowflakes.

I didn't dismiss it. My point is that theorizing over whether money leads to happiness doesn't take into account the absence of money acting as an obstacle to happiness. The heuristic is psychologically leading in that it does not make the distinction of what happiness is. Happiness can be relatively defined from personal experience. In order to analyze this any further, I'd have to examine the studies to see how the…

There is plenty of research demonstrating adding money to low income people does increase happiness, but adding money to high income earners does not. So, the question is why does adding money to high income earners not increase happiness. It's generally assumed that high income earners are not spending their disposable income 'optimally'.

PS: Sure, perhaps their not measuring 'happiness' and if it makes you feel better call it fruitkerfluffle if you want. However, that does not invalidate the question.

Re: If money doesn't make you happy, you probably aren't spending it right (2010) [pdf]

#147

Post by SnacksOnAPlane »

zo1 wrote: post #130
SnacksOnAPlane wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who say "life is fair" are usually the ones who have an easy life. It's a way to blame people for their problems.

"It's a way to blame people for their problems." Why does blame have to be part of it? Or are you saying that people who use that phrase are implying that people are to blame for what problems they have because life itself is fair?

Yeah, I'm saying that people who say "life is fair" usually haven't had horrible problems like birth defects or having their house burn down. It's also a way for people who have had incredibly good luck to rationalize why they have it so easy while other people struggle.

Re: If money doesn't make you happy, you probably aren't spending it right (2010) [pdf]

#148

Post by smileysteve »

thelogos wrote: post #123
smileysteve wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the case of the story of the fisherman in Mexico, he is not going on big hauls that pay big bucks. He is in a small one man boat in a bay. He is not catching thousands of pounds of fish, he is catching 2-5 fish a day.

You can't support a family catching 2-5 fishes a day. This is not prehistory. You need to catch extra to sell so you can afford to take your kid to the doctor and buy them medicine when they get sick. You need to buy clothes unless you plan on leaving yourself and your family naked. You need to buy school supplies for your kid. These things do not come for free my friend. The life of a fisherman is a harsh one and no…

> I speak from experience here. There is nothing, nothing noble about poverty.

Your problem is with the well known allegory, not the people on hacker news romanticizing poverty.

Your position seems to distance itself from the allegory because we have no sense that this community in Mexico has first world medical care, schools, or western clothing.

The allegory also suggests this as 'simple' life, which most probably means selling the fish at market as soon as the fisherman comes in - no salting, no drying, etc.

Re: If money doesn't make you happy, you probably aren't spending it right (2010) [pdf]

#149

Post by rasengan »

SnacksOnAPlane wrote: post #147
zo1 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's a way to blame people for their problems." Why does blame have to be part of it? Or are you saying that people who use that phrase are implying that people are to blame for what problems they have because life itself is fair?

Yeah, I'm saying that people who say "life is fair" usually haven't had horrible problems like birth defects or having their house burn down. It's also a way for people who have had incredibly good luck to rationalize why they have it so easy while other people struggle.

I'll share my story with the world soon. My life wasn't easy at all, and unfortunately, it still isn't. However, I'm working as hard as I can.

Re: If money doesn't make you happy, you probably aren't spending it right (2010) [pdf]

#150

Post by thelogos »

smileysteve wrote: post #148
thelogos wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't support a family catching 2-5 fishes a day. This is not prehistory. You need to catch extra to sell so you can afford to take your kid to the doctor and buy them medicine when they get sick. You need to buy clothes unless you plan on leaving yourself and your family naked. You need to buy school supplies for your kid. These things do not come for free my friend. The life of a fisherman is a harsh one and no…

> I speak from experience here. There is nothing, nothing noble about poverty. Your problem is with the well known allegory, not the people on hacker news romanticizing poverty. Your position seems to distance itself from the allegory because we have no sense that this community in Mexico has first world medical care, schools, or western clothing. The allegory also suggests this as 'simple' life, which most probably…

My point is, the allegory is a farce that trivialize reality.

The simple life is not simple. No life is ever simple.

The allegory masquerades as false wisdom.

I know quite a few guys that went back to their home country and attempted to live that "simple life".

Now they're all coming back, most usually do it around the time their first child enters grade school.

All this despite that fact that they have significantly more money than the local population. Just imagine if they didn't.

There's a very good reason why there's so many illegal immigrants in first world countries.

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