Live data from Hacker News

Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison

torrentfreak.com

91–100 of 207 posts

Re: Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only because YOU consider it mild, probably because you're happy to eat anything. Do you not understand that perhaps other people might feel differently? And are you unable to empathise with that point of view?

There are a lot of things I don't like to eat and I'm pretty sure that I would find eating in prison quite troublesome, regardless of what the food is. It's one of the many prices you pay for breaking the law, but surely losing your freedom and seeing the world move on without you should dominate this unease?

Well there is a major distinction here. We aren't talking about "i don't care for meat." We are talking about someone's deeply held convictions on morality. Oftentimes vegetarianism is a major part of their identity and culture.

A vegetarian diet can be part of a relgious practce. Plenty of Indian religions emphasize a vegetarian diet - Jainism, Hinduism and Buddhism. As well as well as the Seventh-day Adventist, a Christian religion.

Re: Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison

#92
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still unelegant and inconsistent. If I claim my diet requires high-quality food determined by me daily, that gets ignored. I understand Kosher for commercial enterprises like airlines: with a minimum of effort, they can satisfy many customers. But governments should have consistent treatment of citizens.

Even if a diet choice is voluntary, if the choice is grounded in religious or ethical reasons then it is an infringement of personal freedom to deny that. Yes, prison itself is an infringement of freedom, but some believe that certain freedoms should remain permanent.

Well, religious diets are arguably not voluntary. I'd say it's far different to allow a Kosher meal than it is to plan, purchase, prep, and serve a special diet to one inmate who has a preference of diet because that is how they chose to eat on the outside.

Re: Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison

#93

Going back to enjoying the off-the records millions made by putting shady ads on thepiratebay.se for 10+ years. I seriously have a very hard time time to understand the widespread sympathy for this gang. If they would have gone without ads, sure.

TIL: HN is no better than reddit. Truth is downvoted here as well.

Personally I hope hes rich, They did not invent torrents, they did little to improve the market for them directly, but they have provided something valuable in making one of the most takedown resistant sites on the Internet. That kind of technological exploration is incredibly valuable, and they provide a service a lot of people wanted, and it makes sense to profit off that if you can.

Re: Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison

#94
post #55
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the fact that it is problematic to say that prisons should accommodate any kind of voluntary diets (vegetarian, vegan, halal, kosher, etc.). I do not say this because prisons should "punish" inmates, but because it would require to draw a line between "common" or "reasonable" voluntary diets, and other diets. (Of course, this does not apply to special diets required for medical reasons.) In fact, I have…

The lines are pretty clear: Vegan; vegetarian; Halal; Kosher; medical; none of the above. These rules cover most religions and most lifestyle diets; these do exclude wishy-washy bullshit. Not providing foods guided by a person's religion is probably a violation of article 5 and is a violation of article 18 of the universal declaration of human rights. You can ask that the prisonor provides evidence of adherance to th…

> These rules cover most religions and most lifestyle diets; these do exclude wishy-washy bullshit.

What about people who only want to eat free-range eggs (and not any products derived from eggs from caged hens?); or do not want to eat fish from non-sustainable fishing? Sure, they can stick to the vegan diet, but isn't it discriminatory that their specific preferences are not taken into account, and that they are mixed with a larger group? (In the same way that, I guess, you would not find it acceptable if people who want to eat halal or kosher were directed to eat vegan food; although note that kosher can be more restrictive than vegan due to requirements on checking for possible insect infestation of certain vegetables.)

What about people who refuse to eat GM food? People who refuse to eat food that wasn't produced locally, because they want to cut down on pollution? What about fruitarians? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruitarianism) Jain vegetarians? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_vegetarianism ; note that it excludes onions so vegan diet is not OK). Sarbloh bibek for Sikhs? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diet_in_Sikhism#Sarbloh_Bibek)

Who is to make a decision about which practices are "bullshit" and which ones are "serious"? or whether one was "sufficiently" committed to a practice in the past? If you specifically accommodate some of these practices but not others, you are discriminating against people following practices which are too rare or not sufficiently established. In this spirit I think your original list would be discriminatory relative to the other practices I have listed above.

My claim is that a prison has to manage the practical life of the inmates and feed them (with a default option; I do not object them buying different food items from external suppliers), and when you have to do this you cannot satisfy all preferences. Then, it is discriminatory to satisfy some preferences and disregard others because they are more common, or they have an established name ("vegetarianism" vs "not eating pineapples shipped by air freight"), or they are motivated by religious reasons. As long as the diet cannot be justified by a medical necessity, you are accommodating a personal preference, no matter the underlying reason; and it is discriminatory to favor some at the expense of others, and impossible to rate whether preferences are "valid" or "serious" (except by a doctor, for the medical cases).

It is probably a good idea to offer diverse food options to increase the odds that people find something that suits them, but as soon as you go out of your way to satisfy a specific observance, I think it has the potential to be discriminatory.

> Not providing foods guided by a person's religion is probably a violation of article 5 and is a violation of article 18 of the universal declaration of human rights.

If you interpret the "right to observance" as implying that the State, when detaining you, must accommodate your beliefs, then as I have argued it is practically impossible to do this in a non-discriminatory fashion.

(To give more background about my opinions: I am quite influenced by French laïcité https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La%C3%AFcit%C3%A9 whose current interpretation is often that, to avoid discriminating against any religious creed, as you cannot recognize them all, you should endorse none.)

Re: Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison

#95
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Although Sunde did not provide Ars with specific financial details regarding The Pirate Bay's operational expenses, he did argue that the site's high bandwidth, power, and hardware costs eliminate the potential for profit. The Pirate Bay, he says, may ultimately be operating at a loss. Source: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2008/02/pirate-bay-big-re...

I'm generally in favor of TPB, but " may be operating at a loss"? How the hell do you not know if your bottom line is going up or down? This sounds fishy to me.

I think when you're in that line of business, your entire infrastructure could be taken from you at any moment. That could make knowing your financials kind of difficult.

Edit: Why the downvotes?

Re: Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison

#96
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Prison is punishment first, rehabilitation second That is not a society I want to live in. Prison should protect the remaining population and rehabilitate, punishment should be a consequence of the means necessary to do so. Prioritizing in that order (protect -> rehabilitate). In my opinion anyways..

It is the society you live in. The entire point of prison is to suck, so as to be a deterrent against going there.

But thise prisons are stupid. They're very expensive and they just don't work.

And by removjg diets you are disproportionately punishing some people. A Muslim given the same sentence as someone with no religion will suffer more as a result of imprisonment purely because of the lack of dietary choice.

"Prison should suck" is a horrible sentiment, and runs contrary to the UDHR. I understand that American hasn't ratified that, but that's not because they disagree with it.

Re: Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison

#97
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're in prison because you disregarded the values that society put in place, surely the society has no obligations to respect your values in prison (although it still goes to some length to do that).

"You shoplifted an expensive purse, so now we can force you to eat your late mother" is a positively medieval stance to take. Prisoners are still human beings, and forcing them to do horrible things like that is a violation of both the general idea of human rights and several parts of the US Constitution.

You're committing the slippery slope fallacy.

My point still stands regardless of the extreme example you decided to illustrate it: you disregarded society's values and in return the society will disregard some of your values.

The prisoner doesn't get to decide what is cruel and unusual punishment to them.

Re: Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison

#98
post #92
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if a diet choice is voluntary, if the choice is grounded in religious or ethical reasons then it is an infringement of personal freedom to deny that. Yes, prison itself is an infringement of freedom, but some believe that certain freedoms should remain permanent.

Well, religious diets are arguably not voluntary. I'd say it's far different to allow a Kosher meal than it is to plan, purchase, prep, and serve a special diet to one inmate who has a preference of diet because that is how they chose to eat on the outside.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there.

Religious diets are not voluntary, but choice of religion is voluntary.

Vegetarian/vegan diets adhering to an ethical philosophy are not voluntary, but choosing to accept an animal rights philosophy is voluntary.

Either both are a choice or neither are a choice, depending on how you define your terms.

Now, if the vegan diet was for personal taste or even for health reasons (as long as there was no significant health impact from going off of it), then it's a different story.

Re: Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison

#99
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Prison is punishment first, rehabilitation second That is not a society I want to live in. Prison should protect the remaining population and rehabilitate, punishment should be a consequence of the means necessary to do so. Prioritizing in that order (protect -> rehabilitate). In my opinion anyways..

It is the society you live in. The entire point of prison is to suck, so as to be a deterrent against going there.

Living in Norway, I don't feel that to be the truth. You have a great point though! But I think removal of freedom, and in some cases isolation, suffices as deterrent.

Re: Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison

#100
It's pretty rich that almost this entire thread is arguing about the prison not respecting Sunde's vegan wishes and his personal wealth and ideals. There are more than ninety comments here and all of them hang off nearly-dead comments.

The entire point of prison is to suck, otherwise it wouldn't serve its role, which is to deter crime. Louis CK has a bit about this in one of his recent specials:

    ...but we really need the law against murder, for
    one simple reason: the law against murder is the number
    one thing preventing murder. We'd like to think it's
    because "oh, I would never do that," no, it's because
    it really sucks getting caught murdering. A lot. [1]
Debating the prison's respect for Sunde's vegan wishes misses the forest for the trees. Honestly, if that's your biggest concern from reading this article, you have really messed up priorities. How about the fact that he went to maximum at all?

Anyway, just an oddly off-topic thread here, thought I'd point it out. It's even more fun because I've been detained, so reading some of the arguments makes it clear that I'm one of the only people with that experience here. Prison's not something you can just try, to see what it's like, so unless you've been there it's usually wise to assume the worst things are true rather than being optimistic about rights and common sense. If one thing is true about detention, it's that rights and common sense don't matter at all when the door's closed and nobody's looking.

Also, welcome back, Peter.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQUr2RkjykU

Post reply on HN