Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

All Dressed Up for Mars and Nowhere to Go

medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 65 posts

Re: All Dressed Up for Mars and Nowhere to Go

#11

Post by Osmium »

CapitalistCartr wrote: post #3

To send actual humans to the surface of Mars requires several robotic missions first to prepare. If we expect to make fuel for the return journey there, that needs to be happening before the people leave Earth orbit. Ditto for digging the hole and putting in an underground habitat. Building a greenhouse from glass made on Mars. Growing actual food on the surface. Each of these steps are critical and need testing befo…

How about, before all that, we try and inhabit, say, deserts on Earth first? Make that psychologically and economically feasible first. To my knowledge, we are yet to successfully demonstrate that we can maintain a viable, materially-closed ecosystem, without having to worry about extra things we'd encounter on Mars like pressure and temperature differentials and excess radiation.

I am all for Mars, 100%. The sooner the better. But it's not like Earth doesn't have its own inhospitable climates that are vastly easier to conquer than Mars, and we haven't even managed that (but then, perhaps there's just not enough motivation?).

Re: All Dressed Up for Mars and Nowhere to Go

#12

Post by ChuckMcM »

Osmium wrote: post #11
CapitalistCartr wrote: post #3

To send actual humans to the surface of Mars requires several robotic missions first to prepare. If we expect to make fuel for the return journey there, that needs to be happening before the people leave Earth orbit. Ditto for digging the hole and putting in an underground habitat. Building a greenhouse from glass made on Mars. Growing actual food on the surface. Each of these steps are critical and need testing befo…

How about, before all that, we try and inhabit, say, deserts on Earth first? Make that psychologically and economically feasible first. To my knowledge, we are yet to successfully demonstrate that we can maintain a viable, materially-closed ecosystem, without having to worry about extra things we'd encounter on Mars like pressure and temperature differentials and excess radiation. I am all for Mars, 100%. The sooner…

We already comfortably inhabit a desert, we call it Los Angleles :-) Perhaps a better example is the underground city of Australia, Coober Pedy. Non self-sustaining examples exist in the Antarctic as well.

The point being, Earth has hard to live in places, but not a lot of motivation for living in those places. Mars as a sort of sex appeal to it "Mars!" but its a valid question what happens once people figure out that its just a place that is really really far away from Walmart.

Re: All Dressed Up for Mars and Nowhere to Go

#13

Post by jordanpg »

Schweigi wrote: post #4

Well written article! As much as I would like to but I think it will probably never happen in the near future. Not because of technical reasons as some people state in the article. In my opinion the technical difficulties are not the most difficult things to solve in order to travel to Mars. Humanity went basically from 0 to space and on the Moon but this was only possible because of the political pressure where ever…

I agree. Barring some economic windfall that hasn't yet been discovered, it will require a national (world?) crisis and a Manhattan/Apollo project for a project on this scale.

And the $6B pricetag is ludicrous. To put this in context, the state of California estimates the cost of high-speed rail from SF to LA at ~$50B.

Re: All Dressed Up for Mars and Nowhere to Go

#14

Post by jordanpg »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #12
Osmium wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about, before all that, we try and inhabit, say, deserts on Earth first? Make that psychologically and economically feasible first. To my knowledge, we are yet to successfully demonstrate that we can maintain a viable, materially-closed ecosystem, without having to worry about extra things we'd encounter on Mars like pressure and temperature differentials and excess radiation. I am all for Mars, 100%. The sooner…

We already comfortably inhabit a desert, we call it Los Angleles :-) Perhaps a better example is the underground city of Australia, Coober Pedy. Non self-sustaining examples exist in the Antarctic as well. The point being, Earth has hard to live in places, but not a lot of motivation for living in those places. Mars as a sort of sex appeal to it "Mars!" but its a valid question what happens once people figure out tha…

I think the point is not that it is technologically infeasible to live in deserts, but that doing it years with only what you can fit in a capsule the size of a U-Haul or dig out of the ground (with a drill you brought with you in the U-Haul) is extremely difficult.

And, that no one has demonstrated how that can be turned into a positive, long-term revenue stream, even in principle.

Re: All Dressed Up for Mars and Nowhere to Go

#16

Post by johnloeber »

MrZongle2 wrote: post #6

First: I thought this was a well-written article. Second: although it is definitely not something I would seriously consider, I can appreciate that there are some people out there who are in fine mental health and would eagerly go on a one-way trip to Mars. But third, when I read this: Before he’d applied for Mars One, Josh had met a girl at the Redhead Days festival in the Netherlands. Eli did not have red hair, but…

I felt sorry for Josh as well. He seemed like a well-meaning, overly optimistic fool, giving up real, potential happiness for an illusion, a wonderful fantasy, a pipe dream.

Re: All Dressed Up for Mars and Nowhere to Go

#17

Post by austinz »

When they explain to me how ISRU (in-situ resource utilization) can fabricate a replacement for a blown microchip or a refrigerator's compressor - based only on the equipment you can bring to Mars in a couple of space capsules - I'll be ready to begin seeing Mars One as something other than an insane pipe dream.

This article nails it: these people would be living an 18th-century lifestyle. But it would be one utterly dependent on 21st-century technology for something as basic as breathable air. If their 18th-century lifestyle can't keep their 21st-century technology working, and the organizing company can't drum up enough money to send regular resupply flights for decades to come, they die. Simple as that.

Re: All Dressed Up for Mars and Nowhere to Go

#18

Post by eastbayjake »

Osmium wrote: post #11
CapitalistCartr wrote: post #3

To send actual humans to the surface of Mars requires several robotic missions first to prepare. If we expect to make fuel for the return journey there, that needs to be happening before the people leave Earth orbit. Ditto for digging the hole and putting in an underground habitat. Building a greenhouse from glass made on Mars. Growing actual food on the surface. Each of these steps are critical and need testing befo…

How about, before all that, we try and inhabit, say, deserts on Earth first? Make that psychologically and economically feasible first. To my knowledge, we are yet to successfully demonstrate that we can maintain a viable, materially-closed ecosystem, without having to worry about extra things we'd encounter on Mars like pressure and temperature differentials and excess radiation. I am all for Mars, 100%. The sooner…

The Mars Society has already been doing this with a habitat simulation in the Canadian arctic[1]. They're also talking about doing a reality TV show[2] and you can try to sign up as a volunteer crew member[3].

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flashline_Mars_Arctic_Research_...

[2] http://deadline.com/2014/03/thinkfactory-media-shopping-mars...

[3] http://www.marssociety.org/home/press/announcements/ma365-ca...

Re: All Dressed Up for Mars and Nowhere to Go

#19

Post by ChuckMcM »

jordanpg wrote: post #14
ChuckMcM wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already comfortably inhabit a desert, we call it Los Angleles :-) Perhaps a better example is the underground city of Australia, Coober Pedy. Non self-sustaining examples exist in the Antarctic as well. The point being, Earth has hard to live in places, but not a lot of motivation for living in those places. Mars as a sort of sex appeal to it "Mars!" but its a valid question what happens once people figure out tha…

I think the point is not that it is technologically infeasible to live in deserts, but that doing it years with only what you can fit in a capsule the size of a U-Haul or dig out of the ground (with a drill you brought with you in the U-Haul) is extremely difficult. And, that no one has demonstrated how that can be turned into a positive, long-term revenue stream, even in principle.

Camping in the Sierras as I have done over the years has lead to seeing a lot of mining towns. And a mining town in the 19th century was a modest analog of a Mars colony in that they made most of their own tools out of locally available material, lived off food that could be sourced locally, and had few support structures outside of their own ingenuity.

The argument that presumably robotic missions would pre-supply a landing site with materials that could not be locally sourced, tools for processing locally sourced materials into useful form (including but not limited to air/water). Puts what is left being there for the hell of it.

Failed earth experiments like the Biosphere ones depended primarily on self containment (good for when you are surrounded by vacuum), successful experiments like the Russian 'mobile home from hell' [1], and some things in the middle like 'earth ships'[2] actually point to feasibility.

What is lacking is the certainty that you will die if this doesn't work. And that, is pretty hard to simulate on Earth because there is always an "option" of some sort for rescue.

[1] http://www.space.com/13500-mock-mars-mission-mars-500-ends.h...

[2] http://earthship.com/

Re: All Dressed Up for Mars and Nowhere to Go

#20

Post by thisjepisje »

austinz wrote: post #17

When they explain to me how ISRU (in-situ resource utilization) can fabricate a replacement for a blown microchip or a refrigerator's compressor - based only on the equipment you can bring to Mars in a couple of space capsules - I'll be ready to begin seeing Mars One as something other than an insane pipe dream. This article nails it: these people would be living an 18th-century lifestyle. But it would be one utterly…

It's like a time machine that kills everyone as soon as the time machine breaks.
Post reply on HN