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Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison

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Re: Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison

#61

Post by VLM »

bdcravens wrote: post #16
Goronmon wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should a prison accommodate a prisoner who is a vegan any more than one who wants to eat filet mignon for every meal?

Vegan doesn't mean higher quality. It can mean a large serving of beans and broccoli.

Which makes the whole discussion rather bizarre. So you don't want meat slop on beans and rice, fine, take two scoops of rice and beans instead without the slop. Don't want pancakes and bacon, fine, take an extra pancake instead. If the servers won't cooperate, trade a slice of bacon to your neighbor in exchange for a pancake.

I suppose you could intentionally sabotage someone by putting bacon in with the beans, so just avoid mixing expensive bacon in with the cheap beans and I think everyone will be happy?

My guess is dietary sabotage is intentional, even if it takes more money and more effort, as a kind of psychological torture. "The guards will beat you if you don't put bacon bits on your salad because they know you're a vegan" type of thing.

(edited to explain, I ate years of institutional food in school lunches, then the Army, and then at University, pretty much my first quarter century of life, and I assumed its "about the same" in prison. Which is very interestingly, apparently, completely wrong. Prison is apparently more like every inmate gets "the" TV dinner today and there's no sharing/trading allowed.)

Re: Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison

#62

Post by jsmthrowaway »

sejje wrote: post #41
chunkstuntman wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well if (I assume) you're coming from the mindset of how US prisons treat their inmates, expecting prisoners to be treated with any kind of humanity at all would certainly seem rediculous.

Well if (I assume) you're talking about the prisons that aren't max-security, it's not very ridiculous at all. Most of the inmates in our prison system are treated "with humanity."

As a former minimum security inmate, you couldn't be more wrong. Security status has nothing to do with treatment. Just from your comment, I know that you've never so much as been detained.

Prison is a lot better than county detention; in prison, there is a loose respect structure between COs and inmates (you live there, they don't). In county, inmates are dehumanized beyond nothing as a form of control and a mechanism to encourage plea bargains. It happened to me when I spent four months in county: "just accept this plea deal and you can go home," and when I refused I got "lost" in the system on the way back to jail. For 48 hours or more (I lost track). With no food or bathroom facilities. Twice.

All pretrial detention comes with a deadline, for the most part (beyond which you must be sentenced or released), and another tactic they use is to get you to "waive" that time so they can "better investigate your case," they say. One dumb individual I spent time with accepted this offer and had spent nine years in county jail without a sentence. I'm not making this up.

I became a much more cynical person during that experience and hate when I see people defending that system in any way. Whatever you think you know about our detention system, you don't. Whatever you think you know about minimum, you don't, too, and I have several scars to show you if you don't believe me.

Re: Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison

#63

Post by chc »

zak_mc_kracken wrote: post #53
Someone1234 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the only goal of forcing someone to eat something they consider immoral is to punish. It certainly won't help rehabilitation efforts (likely hurt them, in fact).

> Because the only goal of forcing someone to eat something they consider immoral is to punish. Prison is punishment first, rehabilitation second (and it's pretty bad at that considering the percentage of recidivists). Of all the consequences of breaking the law, being forced to eat something you don't like certainly sounds pretty mild.

Just because you don't happen to share their values doesn't make this the same thing as being a picky eater. I don't think you'd be so cavalier if the prison were doing something that goes against your values — for example, if the prisoners were forced to eat human meat.

Re: Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison

#64

Post by zak_mc_kracken »

TomGullen wrote: post #60
zak_mc_kracken wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because the only goal of forcing someone to eat something they consider immoral is to punish. Prison is punishment first, rehabilitation second (and it's pretty bad at that considering the percentage of recidivists). Of all the consequences of breaking the law, being forced to eat something you don't like certainly sounds pretty mild.

Only because YOU consider it mild, probably because you're happy to eat anything. Do you not understand that perhaps other people might feel differently? And are you unable to empathise with that point of view?

There are a lot of things I don't like to eat and I'm pretty sure that I would find eating in prison quite troublesome, regardless of what the food is.

It's one of the many prices you pay for breaking the law, but surely losing your freedom and seeing the world move on without you should dominate this unease?

Re: Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison

#65

Post by delecti »

zak_mc_kracken wrote: post #53
Someone1234 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the only goal of forcing someone to eat something they consider immoral is to punish. It certainly won't help rehabilitation efforts (likely hurt them, in fact).

> Because the only goal of forcing someone to eat something they consider immoral is to punish. Prison is punishment first, rehabilitation second (and it's pretty bad at that considering the percentage of recidivists). Of all the consequences of breaking the law, being forced to eat something you don't like certainly sounds pretty mild.

That's really just a difference of opinion. As far as I'm concerned, the loss of freedom from being in prison is punishment enough, what happens to you there shouldn't be unnecessarily cruel or punishing.

The fact that our punishment-heavy system doesn't help recidivism should be a sign that purely punishment isn't effective at rehabilitation.

Re: Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison

#66

Post by MichaelGG »

mikeyouse wrote: post #15
carlisle_ wrote: post #2

>There was no concern for his vegan diet I can't be the only one that thinks it's ridiculous for a prison to accommodate voluntary diets like this.

Is it really much different than Jews keeping Kosher or Muslims keeping Halal? Prisons are for punishment for crimes that we consider significant enough to jail people, they don't have to dehumanize the prisoners. The cost of 'specialty' food for a few tiny percent of prisoners is a minuscule figure in the total cost of imprisonment, and could easily be accommodated within the wider food offerings. If every meal had…

It's still unelegant and inconsistent. If I claim my diet requires high-quality food determined by me daily, that gets ignored.

I understand Kosher for commercial enterprises like airlines: with a minimum of effort, they can satisfy many customers. But governments should have consistent treatment of citizens.

Re: Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison

#67

Post by TomGullen »

zak_mc_kracken wrote: post #64
TomGullen wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only because YOU consider it mild, probably because you're happy to eat anything. Do you not understand that perhaps other people might feel differently? And are you unable to empathise with that point of view?

There are a lot of things I don't like to eat and I'm pretty sure that I would find eating in prison quite troublesome, regardless of what the food is. It's one of the many prices you pay for breaking the law, but surely losing your freedom and seeing the world move on without you should dominate this unease?

> I'm pretty sure that I would find eating in prison quite troublesome

Because you don't like the quality, or because it goes against your ethics?

Do you not see the distinction?

Re: Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison

#68

Post by schoen »

zak_mc_kracken wrote: post #53
Someone1234 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the only goal of forcing someone to eat something they consider immoral is to punish. It certainly won't help rehabilitation efforts (likely hurt them, in fact).

> Because the only goal of forcing someone to eat something they consider immoral is to punish. Prison is punishment first, rehabilitation second (and it's pretty bad at that considering the percentage of recidivists). Of all the consequences of breaking the law, being forced to eat something you don't like certainly sounds pretty mild.

I think it's significant that you switched the parent commenter's "something they consider immoral" to "something you don't like". It does sound pretty mild if it's something you just don't like for mild aesthetic or taste reasons. That's definitely not the way many people think about some of the things that they don't eat.

Re: Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison

#69

Post by johansch »

johansch wrote: post #10

Going back to enjoying the off-the records millions made by putting shady ads on thepiratebay.se for 10+ years. I seriously have a very hard time time to understand the widespread sympathy for this gang. If they would have gone without ads, sure.

TIL: HN is no better than reddit. Truth is downvoted here as well.

Re: Pirate Bay Founder Peter Sunde Released from Prison

#70

Post by MichaelGG »

VLM wrote: post #61
bdcravens wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vegan doesn't mean higher quality. It can mean a large serving of beans and broccoli.

Which makes the whole discussion rather bizarre. So you don't want meat slop on beans and rice, fine, take two scoops of rice and beans instead without the slop. Don't want pancakes and bacon, fine, take an extra pancake instead. If the servers won't cooperate, trade a slice of bacon to your neighbor in exchange for a pancake. I suppose you could intentionally sabotage someone by putting bacon in with the beans, so j…

Vegan diets are much more difficult than that. Pancakes might use eggs, which aren't vegan.
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