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If money doesn't make you happy, you probably aren't spending it right (2010) [pdf]

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Re: If money doesn't make you happy, you probably aren't spending it right (2010) [pdf]

#111

Post by collyw »

coldtea wrote: post #5
aangjie wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably true to the extent that buying small pleasures vs large pleasures works in this case. However there's another factor they mention, "Buy experiences not things". This was fulfilled for you simply by doing the raft guide and travelling without spending money for it. It's also arguable raft guide means helping others ,but not necessary to explain why you were happier in the old day.s

The problem is that when you "buy" the experience, the experience becomes a "thing". An experience is either something genuine or a product. A product is a thing, and money changes a lot of it's attributes.

Actually I was thinking about this recently. I don't buy a lot of things, but occasionally I'll spend a fair chunk on a new bike or kayak. I realised that these things provide me with the experience (provided I get off my arse and use them).

Re: If money doesn't make you happy, you probably aren't spending it right (2010) [pdf]

#112

Post by michokest »

msrpotus wrote: post #53
michokest wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True :) that probably deserves clarification: I made a clear separation between "spending money" (rent, travels, food, leisure) and "investment money". Anything spent is either an investment, where I try to keep returns over 5% yearly, or just everyday stuff. I've found that everyday stuff ends up not being very different than my previous spending levels. EDIT: I also live outside the Bay Area, which definitely helps…

Explains how you can buy so much property with just $1m.

By investing in Berlin and Barcelona, where I've paid from €50k to €150k approx per apartment, and leveraging 50-80%.

Re: If money doesn't make you happy, you probably aren't spending it right (2010) [pdf]

#113

Post by collyw »

thorin wrote: post #64
collyw wrote: post #2

I was happiest 15 years ago working as a raft guide and traveling the world. I had very little money then, but I was very happy. I got to do what I loved every day. I usually made two large purchases per year (the opposite of what this article suggests) - a kayak and a return ticket to my next destination. I now sit in front of a computer. Earn OK money but not enough to retire on anytime soon (I am in Spain just now…

What rivers did you guide on? I've traveled a lot independently kayaking in between work and it was a lot of fun...

Worked in Austria, Inn, Oetz, Sanna, Mexico on the Copalita and Chile on the Petrohoue. Chile is a superb destination for whitewater, I spent the start and end of the season kayaking in different areas.

Re: If money doesn't make you happy, you probably aren't spending it right (2010) [pdf]

#114

Post by careersuicide »

unknownBits wrote: post #32

Money is the most tricky thing men will ever face. Not talking about extreme poverty here, the following is what I've learned: More money leads in almost all people to artificial value, short term superficial happiness, degradation of the soul. On the outside it looks great and shiny, but on the inside the soul starves and craves true happiness. Unfortunately, most rich people react unconsciously by spending more and…

>More money leads in almost all people to artificial value, short term superficial happiness, degradation of the soul.

>Longer term less money creates in almost all people higher valuation of the most simple and basic things, which translates to true happiness for the soul.

Having been dead broke, severely underemployed while freelancing, and in a position where I would have been homeless were it not for my amazing girlfriend I can't help but feel a visceral amount of disagreement with this sentiment. Not having money is miserable. Currently I am pretty well off (greater than 75th percentile in the US) and the change in my life that I can directly attribute to having more money is astonishing. Placing a high value on basic things doesn't lead to happiness. It leads to stress, worry, sadness, self loathing, and worst of all envy. And if you have kids I can't even imagine the amount of guilt one might feel if you can't provide for them.

If you go to the grocery store and agonize over every item you place in your cart because not doing so means you might not be able to pay your rent there's almost no way you're going to have the will and the energy left at the end of the day to really enjoy the things that matter in life. It's just too draining and has a real opportunity cost. That's not placing a higher value on basic things, that's putting on blinders and only focusing on your immediate future.

Re: If money doesn't make you happy, you probably aren't spending it right (2010) [pdf]

#116

Post by kstenerud »

While I can see how principles 7 and 8 could help most people, they wouldn't work for me.

Every purchase of an item I intended to use long term (2 years or more) was preceded by anywhere from days to weeks of research, reviews, and comparison shopping. It's a huge brain drain, but it was worth it. I now have 98% of all possessions I'd want, with the remaining 2% having not reached the right opportunity yet (I'm also quite frugal). More importantly, I did not follow the herd. I found that an overall rating is a good rough indicator (thus saving many hours of work on my part), but you still need to look into individual reviews, because not everyone has the same tastes or standards or needs or use cases as you.

I now have a comfortable place, possessions that are built to last, and very few wants that would require more money to satisfy.

So has money bought me happiness? I believe a better way to phrase it would be to say that money is no longer a barrier to my happiness.

Re: If money doesn't make you happy, you probably aren't spending it right (2010) [pdf]

#117

Post by Chinjut »

Everything else being equal, of course I'd be happier to have more money.

But all things aren't equal, and many of the things one is supposed to spend one's time on in order to make maximal money are things I am unhappy spending my time on.

(That having been said, the article is about getting the best happiness bang from whatever bucks you do have, which I have no argument with. I suppose I'm just saying, in many cases, the optimal happiness I could purchase with some money stream is the free time "purchased" by not working for it in the first place.)

Re: If money doesn't make you happy, you probably aren't spending it right (2010) [pdf]

#118

Post by wiredfool »

wtracy wrote: post #99
jacquesm wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with most of your decisions but: > Completely forget about the price tag when buying small-ticket things: a taxi ride, asking for an extra plate, an occasional flight, paying a round of drinks Needs a little asterisk, you're changing your lifestyle to one that you probably can not yet afford, be careful with that, these 'little things' really add up over time. Other than that: Congratulations :)

It is a valid strategy to not sweat the individual purchases, but watch your bank account and track your overall burn rate, then adjust if necessary.

FWIW, about 5 months ago, my family started sweating the small things. It's changed our burn rate by ~25%, from disturbingly over income to comfortably under income.

Looking back now, our happiness level is pretty much at the same point. We can't really tell what we we're missing, although I know there are things.

Re: If money doesn't make you happy, you probably aren't spending it right (2010) [pdf]

#119

Post by Iftheshoefits »

msrpotus wrote: post #53
michokest wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True :) that probably deserves clarification: I made a clear separation between "spending money" (rent, travels, food, leisure) and "investment money". Anything spent is either an investment, where I try to keep returns over 5% yearly, or just everyday stuff. I've found that everyday stuff ends up not being very different than my previous spending levels. EDIT: I also live outside the Bay Area, which definitely helps…

Explains how you can buy so much property with just $1m.

Leverage. The Bay Area is an especially bad area to compare with. The single family home I own (and rent out) where I lived before I moved to SV could be purchased 5 times for the same amount it would sell for once here. I guarantee I could not rent it out for five times the rent I charge my tenants.

Re: If money doesn't make you happy, you probably aren't spending it right (2010) [pdf]

#120

Post by emotionalcode »

Retric wrote: post #106
emotionalcode wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are judging this from the criteria of an average person living and spending their money. Plastic surgery might help someone with a physical deformity, and renting out a hotel might be a necessity for a scientific conference. You can't judge the value of a dollar based on the assumption that there exists an average person that spends it. For every frivolous act of spending you can conceive of, I can respond with a…

I think your taking this well outside of the 'spending disposable money to increase personal happiness’ discussion. Remember this is in reference to the idea people don't become happier as they spend money because their spending it poorly. As such is reasonable to talk about heuristics vs getting tied into specifics.

I am questioning whether the definition of the heuristics influence the outcome. Self fulfilling prophecies and such.

Specifics are necessary because it can determine whether something is a fundamental property of a thing, how it influences the definition of a thing, how that definition influences the perception of a thing, and the relationships that thing has with other things.

A heuristic requires specifics to be defined, in order for it's definition to exist.

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