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How to write a developer resume that will get you hired

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Re: How to write a developer resume that will get you hired

#141
post #5

"...did you wear a suit" I guess it might depend on the industry, but at most interviews I have done, the expectation has been to just wear jeans and whatever. I usually go with jeans and a polo shirt for safety.

I work at a very casual office, when I've interviewed I've seen just about everything from jeans/t-shirt to a suit. My take away is "look nice" regardless of what level of dress you have chosen. I've been impressed by candidates that wore suits. It shows they understand their appearance is important, however, it is not a deciding factor in the job, just a nice to have. Also had people show up in a suit that is 10 yea…

> 1 When in doubt, wear a suit

As general advice, this is wrong. There are a lot of positions where wearing a suit to the interview would automatically mean you won't get hired.

Of course, it depends on the locale, the position, &c, but the idea that a suit is always safe is somewhat outdated.

Re: How to write a developer resume that will get you hired

#142
post #5

"...did you wear a suit" I guess it might depend on the industry, but at most interviews I have done, the expectation has been to just wear jeans and whatever. I usually go with jeans and a polo shirt for safety.

I work at a very casual office, when I've interviewed I've seen just about everything from jeans/t-shirt to a suit. My take away is "look nice" regardless of what level of dress you have chosen. I've been impressed by candidates that wore suits. It shows they understand their appearance is important, however, it is not a deciding factor in the job, just a nice to have. Also had people show up in a suit that is 10 yea…

Agreed - overdressed loses no points; underdressed can. ( So Pascal's observation holds?)

Re: How to write a developer resume that will get you hired

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That really depends on the hiring environment you are working in. Right now, in most of the tech centers around, it is an employees market. This is not always true and it can be different for different tech centers, technologies, and employees. So sure, while this is working for you right now, keep it in mind in the future when this bubble bursts. I do find it interesting that an adult with professional career in the…

I didn't say I don't own professional clothes. For me its a shirt--the ones you iron--a suit jacket and jeans, no tie. It's just that I am not willing to compromise on my interpretation of "business attire". I consider it quite offensive to openly criticize based on looks. If anybody would consider my jeans unfitting then that's their problem as I have a very good reason to wear jeans (exclusively). I wear clothes be…

This is just my opinion, but I think every guy should own a suit. Sometimes you want to class it up for various reasons, whether to show respect, or indicate status. When I'm giving a presentation at work, I class up my look a little bit, and I think it helps people take me more seriously.

Re: How to write a developer resume that will get you hired

#144
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see where you're coming from but I disagree. I accept people leave when their salary diverges more than a certain amount from the market rate but that would normally - even in a good market - take time. Personally I wouldn't expect a major pay rise within the first 12 months of a job (if you do then you've probably not negotiated your starting salary properly). Add to that a couple of months after that to find anot…

It's simple logic, people move because they can better deal somewhere else otherwise there would be no point. So if people move, the benefits aren't keeping up with other jobs they can get. Most employees are not loyal, because they know companies are not. If they think companies are loyal, they are probably new to the job market. Once a project ends, and there's nothing else to work on they will get rid of you. Ther…

Obviously there is no one rule for everyone but personally in 20 years working in IT I've never left a job because of money (and I've left a few). I've left because of uncertainty, because the work was bad, because there were too many arseholes where I was, because my skills were rusting but never for money.

In the past five years a fair number of people have left the company I work for and I'd estimate about 25% were money related.

As I say there's no one rule but I've seen developers put up dreadful money for a job they liked and take a pay cut to get out of somewhere they hated and if I had to generalise I'd go with that over them following the pay cheque.

Re: How to write a developer resume that will get you hired

#145
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being harsh - graduate CVs are tough because almost no-one has done anything useful. Yes it all looks rubbish but I'd rather someone who had made an effort to sell themselves and had shown they had the ability to pitch up to a job on a regular basis.

But in our industry, it's easy to stand out. Spend a weekend or two, make some web app, Android app, or whatever. Maybe make a commit to some open source project, if you are struggling with ideas (in that case, you are capable to work with code written by other people, amazing!). And you are ahead of majority because you demonstrated that you can make something practical, real world.

That may be true but almost no-one does it.

Re: How to write a developer resume that will get you hired

#146
post #91

At our university, University of Manchester, we had a careers service drone telling us to list your experience working as a waiter and highlight skills you learned there ('communicating in stressful environment' and what not). Dear young readers. Seriously, don't do that. Waste of space at best. Looks just stupid at worst. It doesn't tell me anything about your ability as a programmer at all. Description about a week…

Do you (or anyone else reading this thread) have advice for current college students looking for internships or their first full time job? Unfortunately, I don't have the breadth of experience detailed in the slideshow to even justify a multi-page CV. In my environment, we work with a 1 page resume and I have a variety of side projects I've hacked on, but it's very hit and miss -- some recruiters care a lot, others c…

>> Do you (or anyone else reading this thread) have advice for current college students looking for internships or their first full time job?

Do something and write it down. Most coursework is not relevant here, but classes that involve a large project - put down the what you did for it. Did you design something? Build something? Discover something? Win something? Lead something? I'm not talking about regular lab projects here, I mean big things that take at least half a semester.

This has been my approach, YMMV. People can appreciate if you demonstrate an ability to DO stuff.

Re: How to write a developer resume that will get you hired

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do agree with you RE: hobby code. I did a jQuery Facebook app for fun, but the one-off weather app I built for a major utility company was and should have been way more impressive even though I did the hobby project after the weather app with all the lessons I'd learned about Javascript from the one I got paid for. Ultimately this is why I don't take any of my side projects seriously anymore, and if there's somethi…

"if there's something I want to learn, I'll find a way to get paid for it" - I'm intrigued, can you give an example?

Say it's something like Angular, I'll just use it on my next front-end project. When I wanted a better provisioning scheme, I built it for my employer. I sold my boss on the benefits of automated provisioning, and created a system for doing it. When I started reading object-oriented design literature, I immediately started implementing it in my next project. I didn't even need buy-in because they don't and can't see anything but the fact that everything is more flexible and modular.

When I wanted to learn how to do TDD, I first sold it to my boss, and when he saw how powerful an idea it is, said to go all in with it. I got him to buy a book and the Destroy All Software screencasts.

Basically, whatever the business you work for needs, find a way to deliver it in a way that scratches your learning itch.

Side projects for me have been relegated to just exploring new domains, with technologies I already know well. When I'm having fun on the weekend, I don't want to get hung up on high-friction, high-buy-in paradigm shifting. I just want to have fun and focus on gathering insight.

Re: How to write a developer resume that will get you hired

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I get out of that first statement is that you do tend to disregard unless the candidate knows exactly how to describe the related subjects on their CV in a way that makes you happy. And you don't see the problem that developers might have with that? Especially when they don't know the secret method of describing things to make recruiters happy? As for the rest, I think it's reasonable to assume that a candidate…

The GP is giving helpful advice here. It takes stages to get to the people who will have some idea if your side project is really something or a bit of fluff. Recruiters don't have the experience to know, so it is your job to help them out with your CV. They are looking at many applicants and can't research them in depth and get through the stack at the same time. I believe this is essentially true for hiring manager…

It is helpful advice, to get a job from that recruiter. But what I'm saying is that this is an example of the games that job seekers have to play with different recruiters that have their own methods and agendas. It's also possibly a difference between Europe and United States hiring methods, which could be a misunderstanding on my part.

But you've mentioned part of the problem, "Recruiters don't have the experience to know", therefore there is an issue with some recruiters being the gatekeepers. Especially when they state things that imply if you didn't explain things in the magic way that they want to read it then they'll pass on your resume. That's my issue. It's one thing to say "please phrase your experience in simple terms for a non-technical person might be able to understand and can easily use as a basis for research" as opposed to "write it the way I like it or I may disregard". It's not as bad as the guy who throws out resumes stating he doesn't hire unlucky people, but it is a problem.

After all, if someone writes that they have AngularJS experience and the recruiter can't be bothered to think "I don't know what that is, maybe I should look on Google" then there's a problem. I'm not saying that the recruiter in this thread is that person, but does seem to have something close to that mindset.

Which, I feel the need to point out, I've personally never had a bad experience with a recruiter nor hiring manager. I'm not sure if that means that this problem that crops up quite frequently in the community is not that big a deal as it seems or I'm just lucky. I've also been on the hiring side of the table. It's just my personal experience and it may or may not mean anything to the discussion.

Re: How to write a developer resume that will get you hired

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as a developer, why do you feel it's reasonable to disregard side projects? If, say, I claim LLVM knowledge based on a publicly available language developed on my spare time, why shouldn't be taken into account in the recruiting process?

I don't disregard them completely and I think CVs can be written in such a way that recruiters (who actually get very excited about such stuff these days) and HR people will be fine with this sort of thing. What I would say is that there is a difference between hobby code where you get to do what you want and code where you didn't control requirements and had to deliver to unreasonable people in unreasonable timefram…

> What I would say is that there is a difference between hobby code where you get to do what you want and code where you didn't control requirements and had to deliver to unreasonable people in unreasonable timeframes (aka commercial software development). Obviously it would depend on the projects but generally someone who has commercial experience would probably be viewed more favourably as it's more directly comparable to what I need you to do.

1) If I can write a backend integration for some well known property (say, Amazon) as a hobby in Language X.

2) If I can show I can write backend integrations for some well known standard (say, EDI) in Language Y at my Day Job.

The idea I could write a backend integration for some API in Language X at a new job in situations where I don't control the requirements, etc. is quite reasonable.

"Commercial experience" is really managing expectations and timelines to make it clear what you can/cannot do. It doesn't magically make the choice of X vs. Y a significant difference if you are experienced enough in both to produce functional projects. Tbh, I'd be more worried about domain knowledge (How well does the programmer understand accounting?) than I would be about whether the programming language is X or Y is the one they use at their day job.

The quality of code isn't going to massively change because a different language is used. You aren't going to know the quality of code from their Day Job anyway, for all you know its unsustainable crap and they are trying to bail before their boss realizes it. At least with a hobby project you can check the basic boxes like "Does this person like OOP vs. functional programming?".

The most that would change is how often the Dev would need to refer to the documentation and honestly, for anything that matters, that is going to happen alot anyway since no one wants to write something moving 5-6 figures a day worth of product without double checking everything first.

If you aren't building something that handles that kind of value, the bar makes even less sense since you aren't worried about them screwing up language specific edge cases that might cost you more than their paycheck if it goes unnoticed for an hour.

If anything, it seems to me this is testing for the absolute opposite of what you'd want to test for. Sure, it'll work if the other measures are good...but communication ability + domain knowledge + ability to write code in Language X is what is required. Caring about whether or not Language X is or is not a hobby language...isn't testing for anything relevant to the job if they've had programming jobs before.

Re: How to write a developer resume that will get you hired

#150
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it doesn't fail. I've been recruiting solid teams who deliver software for a decade now. The right current skills and the ability to learn future skills aren't incompatible. After all, how do you think those people got those current skills? I don't have to choose one or the other and I've rarely met anyone in IT who isn't willing to learn new skills. Generally I have two or three core skills I'm looking for for a…

You have little idea what your opportunity costs are. However, it’s unlikely that the best fit is going to have your ideal background and be willing to spend much time jumping through your hoops.

My hoops? Did you read what I wrote? I suggest 5 minutes of CV tailoring.

You think that's jumping through hoops?

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