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Apple finally makes it easy to disable iMessage

wired.co.uk

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Re: Apple finally makes it easy to disable iMessage

#21

Post by psykovsky »

mikeash wrote: post #16
Terretta wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a much bigger issue, the default iPhone settings has "Send as SMS" off, this means that if a failed iMessage attempt occurs, it will just give up (rather than sending by SMS). So by default, it sends a secure end-to-end message, and you'd prefer it to fail back and send an insecure SMS logged by your telco? (Verizon, for example, makes your SMS history available in a web portal.) I think the bigger issue wo…

He implies a nice middle road: don't automatically fall back to SMS, but inform the user that the recipient cannot be reached on iMessage and SMS must be enabled if you want to talk to them.

Why not just ask straight away if the user wants to send the message as SMS instead of having to change global configurations?

Re: Apple finally makes it easy to disable iMessage

#22

Post by jevinskie »

ogreface wrote: post #7
scrumper wrote: post #2

We'll see if it fixes the big issue I'm having - a friend who ditched his iPhone can exchange SMS messages with me and others individually, but he can't participate in group threads anymore. No error, he just never receives the messages.

I have this exact issue. When I used the de-register tool, it said that I wasn't registered with iMessage. I don't have high hopes here...

Seconded. I still have the old iPhone. I wonder if reregistering and deregistering with the new tool will help or just make things worse.

This is only an issue for me because Apple made the arbitrary decision to make your iPhone functionally useless after a restore unless you insert a SIM. I still use my iPhone for dev. Guess what happened after a restore once I inserted my SIM? My iPhone automatically enrolled my phone number in iMessages. I spent months getting SMS working after switching to Android and I'm back at square one. This is antitrust level BS.

Re: Apple finally makes it easy to disable iMessage

#24

Post by DougBTX »

geofft wrote: post #14
Terretta wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a much bigger issue, the default iPhone settings has "Send as SMS" off, this means that if a failed iMessage attempt occurs, it will just give up (rather than sending by SMS). So by default, it sends a secure end-to-end message, and you'd prefer it to fail back and send an insecure SMS logged by your telco? (Verizon, for example, makes your SMS history available in a web portal.) I think the bigger issue wo…

Availability is part of security, right next to confidentiality and integrity. Systems that silently fail closed aren't secure in a meaningful way, because you can't distinguish a DoS from "working as designed".

Unless it opens the door to downgrade attacks, then things get a bit more murky: http://crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/10493/why-is-tls-s...

Re: Apple finally makes it easy to disable iMessage

#25

Post by pessimizer »

I assume Apple couldn't get the lawsuits dropped, so they were forced into making concessions to their customers. Prediction: this tool will be ungoogleable, and discoverable only from a visit to an Apple store, or the last step of a support call.

There is no technical reason for iMessage to behave as it does, only business reasons. I can come up with a more intuitive UI for this tool right now - make disabling iMessage send "curl -X POST [whatever] http://apple.com/technicallyyoucanturnitoff.now ". Done.

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edit:

Is 45 days still in effect?

"If you want to transfer your SIM card or phone number to a device that doesn't support iMessage

"Go to Settings > Messages and turn off iMessage if you plan to transfer your SIM card or phone number from an iPhone to a device that doesn't support iMessage. If you don't, other iOS devices might continue to try to send you messages using iMessage, instead of using SMS or MMS, for up to 45 days."

http://support.apple.com/en-us/TS2755

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edit2:

This change was directly a result of the lawsuit, which went into mediation 2 weeks ago in preparation for a settlement.

Lawsuit: http://www.slideshare.net/harrisonrweber/apple-imessage-laws...

News of settlement: http://www.law360.com/articles/590726

better: http://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/...

Apple could have done this at any time, but chose not to.

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last edit:

from the lawsuit filing -

"49. Apple's business practice of distributing, marketing, and its iMessage and Messages service and application in the manner described herein is also an unfair business practice because it, inter alia, threatens to harm competition in its incipiency. Class members and others who become aware that switching their Apple iPhone or other wireless devices in favor of non-Apple products will result in these persons not being able to receive text messages sent to them by other Apple users are likely to be disincentivized from switching from Apple to an Apple competitor. [...]"

Re: Apple finally makes it easy to disable iMessage

#26

Post by micampe »

leonk wrote: post #9

There's a much bigger issue, the default iPhone settings has "Send as SMS" off, this means that if a failed iMessage attempt occurs, it will just give up (rather than sending by SMS). I've tried disabling iMessage on my iphone several times. I then have nothing connected to my iMessage account, but I still miss out on loads of messages from people who have the "Send by SMS" option disabled. Their devices are not told…

> the default iPhone settings has "Send as SMS" off

I don't think this is true. I have a phone here I only use for development where I don't think I changed that setting and it's on.

Re: Apple finally makes it easy to disable iMessage

#27

Post by micampe »

psykovsky wrote: post #21
mikeash wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He implies a nice middle road: don't automatically fall back to SMS, but inform the user that the recipient cannot be reached on iMessage and SMS must be enabled if you want to talk to them.

Why not just ask straight away if the user wants to send the message as SMS instead of having to change global configurations?

When iMessage fails you get a notification and next to the message appears a button which pops up a menu with “Try Again” and “Send as SMS”.

http://tidbits.com/resources/2013-10/iMessage-failure.png

(Unfortunately that didn't work for the issue fixed by this tool, since the iMessage never actually failed from the sender's perspective)

Re: Apple finally makes it easy to disable iMessage

#28

Post by laacz »

sudhirj wrote: post #5

Why is the list of countries so small? (India seems to be left out). That simply doesn't make sense for a global company. iMessages and iTunes SMSes worked perfectly, so it's not like they don't have capabilities here.

Yes, as it also makes it impossible to deregister number from iMessaging service from those countries (my included).

Re: Apple finally makes it easy to disable iMessage

#29

Post by saurik »

ender7 wrote: post #17
Terretta wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a much bigger issue, the default iPhone settings has "Send as SMS" off, this means that if a failed iMessage attempt occurs, it will just give up (rather than sending by SMS). So by default, it sends a secure end-to-end message, and you'd prefer it to fail back and send an insecure SMS logged by your telco? (Verizon, for example, makes your SMS history available in a web portal.) I think the bigger issue wo…

What? The correct behavior here is to realize that the target no longer supports iMessage and return to non-iMessage behavior. This should involve swapping the UI from blue back to green so the user is aware.

This is what happens. The setting is only what happens automatically: if the UI is blue and it fails to send. When it fails to send, the message is marked failed (with a red exclamation point), and then the UI switches to green because the recipient is not connected to iMessage.

Re: Apple finally makes it easy to disable iMessage

#30

Post by flatdeviant »

micampe wrote: post #26
leonk wrote: post #9

There's a much bigger issue, the default iPhone settings has "Send as SMS" off, this means that if a failed iMessage attempt occurs, it will just give up (rather than sending by SMS). I've tried disabling iMessage on my iphone several times. I then have nothing connected to my iMessage account, but I still miss out on loads of messages from people who have the "Send by SMS" option disabled. Their devices are not told…

> the default iPhone settings has "Send as SMS" off I don't think this is true. I have a phone here I only use for development where I don't think I changed that setting and it's on.

Nope, I've had to reinstall iOS several times recently and I can confirm that every time, it was turned off. Maybe this depends on your SIM/carrier?
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