I think the problem was that sometimes the iMessage did get delivered, but to an iPad, a Mac, or some other device with iMessage set up using the same Apple ID - so they couldn't just wait to see if the iMessage failed and then just send as a normal SMS.
Apple finally makes it easy to disable iMessage
11–20 of 48 posts
Re: Apple finally makes it easy to disable iMessage
#12There's a much bigger issue, the default iPhone settings has "Send as SMS" off, this means that if a failed iMessage attempt occurs, it will just give up (rather than sending by SMS). I've tried disabling iMessage on my iphone several times. I then have nothing connected to my iMessage account, but I still miss out on loads of messages from people who have the "Send by SMS" option disabled. Their devices are not told…
Did they say that with a straight face? I can't believe that would be serious advice! "You literally need to contact everyone in your address book and make sure they have the right settings."
No, you remove your number from the imessage "My Addresses" list and everyone else will see nothing different except the send button is green now.
the problem that really exists with iMessage is that it's easy to enroll but people forget to unenroll when they move their number away from iPhone.
Re: Apple finally makes it easy to disable iMessage
#13There's a much bigger issue, the default iPhone settings has "Send as SMS" off, this means that if a failed iMessage attempt occurs, it will just give up (rather than sending by SMS). I've tried disabling iMessage on my iphone several times. I then have nothing connected to my iMessage account, but I still miss out on loads of messages from people who have the "Send by SMS" option disabled. Their devices are not told…
> There's a much bigger issue, the default iPhone settings has "Send as SMS" off, this means that if a failed iMessage attempt occurs, it will just give up (rather than sending by SMS).
So by default, it sends a secure end-to-end message, and you'd prefer it to fail back and send an insecure SMS logged by your telco? (Verizon, for example, makes your SMS history available in a web portal.)
I think the bigger issue would be if iMessage burned your SMS plan and sent insecure messages without you explicitly asking to.
Defaulting to losing the security and privacy seems more "frankly absolutely ridiculous".
Re: Apple finally makes it easy to disable iMessage
#14There's a much bigger issue, the default iPhone settings has "Send as SMS" off, this means that if a failed iMessage attempt occurs, it will just give up (rather than sending by SMS). I've tried disabling iMessage on my iphone several times. I then have nothing connected to my iMessage account, but I still miss out on loads of messages from people who have the "Send by SMS" option disabled. Their devices are not told…
> There's a much bigger issue, the default iPhone settings has "Send as SMS" off, this means that if a failed iMessage attempt occurs, it will just give up (rather than sending by SMS). So by default, it sends a secure end-to-end message, and you'd prefer it to fail back and send an insecure SMS logged by your telco? (Verizon, for example, makes your SMS history available in a web portal.) I think the bigger issue wo…
Availability is part of security, right next to confidentiality and integrity. Systems that silently fail closed aren't secure in a meaningful way, because you can't distinguish a DoS from "working as designed".
Re: Apple finally makes it easy to disable iMessage
#15There's a much bigger issue, the default iPhone settings has "Send as SMS" off, this means that if a failed iMessage attempt occurs, it will just give up (rather than sending by SMS). I've tried disabling iMessage on my iphone several times. I then have nothing connected to my iMessage account, but I still miss out on loads of messages from people who have the "Send by SMS" option disabled. Their devices are not told…
> There's a much bigger issue, the default iPhone settings has "Send as SMS" off, this means that if a failed iMessage attempt occurs, it will just give up (rather than sending by SMS). So by default, it sends a secure end-to-end message, and you'd prefer it to fail back and send an insecure SMS logged by your telco? (Verizon, for example, makes your SMS history available in a web portal.) I think the bigger issue wo…
That's a very generous reading of the situation. How many iPhone users bought their device because it offers secure end-to-end messaging? I'm going to say very few of them. How many of them even know what the blue bubble and the green bubble mean?
I think a lot more users would be surprised that iMessage doesn't burn through your SMS plan than those would be surprised if it did.
Re: Apple finally makes it easy to disable iMessage
#16There's a much bigger issue, the default iPhone settings has "Send as SMS" off, this means that if a failed iMessage attempt occurs, it will just give up (rather than sending by SMS). I've tried disabling iMessage on my iphone several times. I then have nothing connected to my iMessage account, but I still miss out on loads of messages from people who have the "Send by SMS" option disabled. Their devices are not told…
> There's a much bigger issue, the default iPhone settings has "Send as SMS" off, this means that if a failed iMessage attempt occurs, it will just give up (rather than sending by SMS). So by default, it sends a secure end-to-end message, and you'd prefer it to fail back and send an insecure SMS logged by your telco? (Verizon, for example, makes your SMS history available in a web portal.) I think the bigger issue wo…
He implies a nice middle road: don't automatically fall back to SMS, but inform the user that the recipient cannot be reached on iMessage and SMS must be enabled if you want to talk to them.
Re: Apple finally makes it easy to disable iMessage
#17There's a much bigger issue, the default iPhone settings has "Send as SMS" off, this means that if a failed iMessage attempt occurs, it will just give up (rather than sending by SMS). I've tried disabling iMessage on my iphone several times. I then have nothing connected to my iMessage account, but I still miss out on loads of messages from people who have the "Send by SMS" option disabled. Their devices are not told…
> There's a much bigger issue, the default iPhone settings has "Send as SMS" off, this means that if a failed iMessage attempt occurs, it will just give up (rather than sending by SMS). So by default, it sends a secure end-to-end message, and you'd prefer it to fail back and send an insecure SMS logged by your telco? (Verizon, for example, makes your SMS history available in a web portal.) I think the bigger issue wo…
What? The correct behavior here is to realize that the target no longer supports iMessage and return to non-iMessage behavior. This should involve swapping the UI from blue back to green so the user is aware.
Re: Apple finally makes it easy to disable iMessage
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There's a much bigger issue, the default iPhone settings has "Send as SMS" off, this means that if a failed iMessage attempt occurs, it will just give up (rather than sending by SMS). So by default, it sends a secure end-to-end message, and you'd prefer it to fail back and send an insecure SMS logged by your telco? (Verizon, for example, makes your SMS history available in a web portal.) I think the bigger issue wo…
Availability is part of security, right next to confidentiality and integrity. Systems that silently fail closed aren't secure in a meaningful way, because you can't distinguish a DoS from "working as designed".
Availability does not mean availability at any cost. When designing a system at no point should it be considered secure if it fails open.
The issue is that there is little information provided to the user to indicate why there is an issue, but it most certainly should fail closed.
Re: Apple finally makes it easy to disable iMessage
#19There's a much bigger issue, the default iPhone settings has "Send as SMS" off, this means that if a failed iMessage attempt occurs, it will just give up (rather than sending by SMS). I've tried disabling iMessage on my iphone several times. I then have nothing connected to my iMessage account, but I still miss out on loads of messages from people who have the "Send by SMS" option disabled. Their devices are not told…
Maybe the spooks have tagged a rogue imessage recipient key onto your account, leaving the total remaining count > 0 ;)
Re: Apple finally makes it easy to disable iMessage
#20We'll see if it fixes the big issue I'm having - a friend who ditched his iPhone can exchange SMS messages with me and others individually, but he can't participate in group threads anymore. No error, he just never receives the messages.
I have this exact issue. When I used the de-register tool, it said that I wasn't registered with iMessage. I don't have high hopes here...
Likewise here - switched from iPhone (on Verizon) to Android (on T-Mobile), and in several group threads I no longer see the replies of some of the participants. Truly frustrating, and makes you feel marginalized from the conversation.