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Against Productivity

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Re: Against Productivity

#11
post #8

805 million people on earth don't have enough to eat. 783 million don't have access to clean water. 1.9 million die of diarrhea every year. 176 million African adults can't read. And this guy sits around the first world for a couple years with the back of his hand nailed to his forehead. If he can't bring himself to do more than write a couple essays and snap some photos over a couple years, I would suggest a refresh…

Wouldn't you be using your time more productively by not reading HN?

Not if he convinces me that this article is a bit whiny and re-orients me towards industry for the sake of human good.

One short quip for renewed vigor. That's productivity!

Re: Against Productivity

#12

805 million people on earth don't have enough to eat. 783 million don't have access to clean water. 1.9 million die of diarrhea every year. 176 million African adults can't read. And this guy sits around the first world for a couple years with the back of his hand nailed to his forehead. If he can't bring himself to do more than write a couple essays and snap some photos over a couple years, I would suggest a refresh…

How much productive effort goes into solving these problems versus other less necessary problems?

Let me define productivity: conscious effort to re-organize the world's energy and matter.

Am I honour bound to re-organize the world's energy and matter until it's in the ideal state (which of course is never obtainable and not even definable, since it's different for each person)?

The author has an issue with productivity for the sake of productivity. Spending time helping people in need is obviously a valuable and wise use of time, but you shouldn't feel guilty for not spending every waking moment increasing your net worth.

Re: Against Productivity

#13
Increased Pareto is a better thing to aim for than increased productivity.

Doing the one very important thing, the one thing with huge returns or leverage will outweigh all the other probably also important things that really hard working and productive people can do in a day

It however takes wisdom to know what is important and courage to trust your wisdom.

Re: Against Productivity

#14
This is an excellent post because it focuses on a central topic: mankind's behavioral predispositions.

The world today runs on profit and productivity. Morals, ethics and philosophies are irrelevant hindrances, as SV and Wall St. have demonstrated repeatedly. This is all well and good, as the last century apparently demonstrated that all ideologies and philosophies are the devil incarnate (Nazism, Leninism, Maoism, etc.)

But I do wonder one thing...did we quit on ideology prematurely? An ideology which I've always held as my own mission in life is the relentless pursuit of knowledge through science.

Throughout history, there have been times where mankind has focused intently on this goal, and the results were incredible. Sadly, most of these periods were spurred on by major wars.

What I really want to know is this:

Is it possible to built a society whose goal is the advancement of mankind's knowledge?

The profit motive and the free market are undoubtedly the best motivators for mankind, due to our evolutionary predispositions for survival and inherent need to establish status hierarchies. But could we not harness these energies, and direct them to positive-sum endavors such as science and engineering research, rather than a pure profit-driven battle to the death?

Keep in mind, the historical mean society throughout history has been oligarchy. It appears the last century was a brief respite due to massive wars and resultant existential threats. We now seem to be heading right back into the oligarchical paradigm of rich get richer, and poor stay serfs [1].

I can envision a society built around the pursuit of knowledge. The market exists and is regulated to produce needs and wants efficiently, yet without negative-sum behavior (regulatory capture, corruption, anti-competitive conduct, wage fixing, etc.) Education and research are a prime government mandate in addition to infrastructure, defense, healthcare and a social safety net. Citizens are incentivized to hone their skills and education continuously without massive financial downsides (student debt). State sponsored research institutes exist throughout the country similar to Bell Labs, Xerox PARC, JPL, etc. and serve to stimulate the economy through constant research projects, both large and small. The projects provide jobs for low and high skilled individuals (e.g. ITER, LHC). Those who enjoy pure research have a plethora of opportunities to move the state of the art forward. Those who don't, have excellent and rewarding employment.

The challenge in creating this society is a very tough one: humans are not motivated by knowledge. We are motivated by status, sex, and power, though few ever understand it or admit to it. But I hope that one day, knowledge of our inherent weaknesses will become common enough such that we can fight our destructive natures in an effort to transcend our limitations.

Till that day, I remain a dreamer.

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_in_the_Twenty-First_Cen...

Re: Against Productivity

#15
If you liked the theme of this essay you will like this book: "How to Be Idle" by Tom Hodgkinson. The book starts similarly and expands the idea of idleness to trying to bring it into your life.

Re: Against Productivity

#16
This post is full of mistakes and unclear thinking. I can't figure out what the author is arguing against or for. Is she against quantifying wealth? I'm not sure. Is she against working hard? Maybe. Does she think it impossible to quantify happiness and well-being? I get the impression she does.

First, the author made a huge mistake when talking about GDP. Her comparison used absolute instead of per-capita values. India and Canada may produce the same amount of wealth, but India has 35 times more people. Of course per-capita GDP doesn't fully capture quality of life, but it's easy to measure and hard to fake. That's why it's used.

Most people make mistakes when it comes to balancing work and leisure, but to claim such mistakes are killing us is preposterous. People in developed countries live the longest, healthiest lives in the history of humanity. The nation with the longest life expectancy is the workaholic Japanese culture so disparaged by the author!

Many people, especially in technology, say their productivity is changing the world, and this is irrefutable. But no one seems to know what they’re changing it into, because no one can measure the world. When no one can measure the world, how much can it really exist?

This really irks me. Measuring and quantifying something is a prerequisite to optimizing it. Maybe a lot of people are measuring the wrong things. Maybe they're missing or underweighting a factor. Maybe they just have different preferences than the author. But to suggest that the entire enterprise is bunk is to disregard centuries of progress across a dozen fields of study.

If money doesn't make you happy, then you probably aren't spending it right.[1]

1. http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/~dtg/DUNN%20GILBERT%20&%20WILSON%...

Edit: Pronouns fixed. Apologies, I thought Quinn was a male name.

Re: Against Productivity

#17
post #11
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't you be using your time more productively by not reading HN?

Not if he convinces me that this article is a bit whiny and re-orients me towards industry for the sake of human good. One short quip for renewed vigor. That's productivity!

Clearly then our best path forward is to spend all our time convincing others to do things.

Re: Against Productivity

#18
post #17
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if he convinces me that this article is a bit whiny and re-orients me towards industry for the sake of human good. One short quip for renewed vigor. That's productivity!

Clearly then our best path forward is to spend all our time convincing others to do things.

[deleted]

Re: Against Productivity

#19
post #8

805 million people on earth don't have enough to eat. 783 million don't have access to clean water. 1.9 million die of diarrhea every year. 176 million African adults can't read. And this guy sits around the first world for a couple years with the back of his hand nailed to his forehead. If he can't bring himself to do more than write a couple essays and snap some photos over a couple years, I would suggest a refresh…

Wouldn't you be using your time more productively by not reading HN?

In the case of this article, yes.

Re: Against Productivity

#20

805 million people on earth don't have enough to eat. 783 million don't have access to clean water. 1.9 million die of diarrhea every year. 176 million African adults can't read. And this guy sits around the first world for a couple years with the back of his hand nailed to his forehead. If he can't bring himself to do more than write a couple essays and snap some photos over a couple years, I would suggest a refresh…

How much productive effort goes into solving these problems versus other less necessary problems? Let me define productivity: conscious effort to re-organize the world's energy and matter. Am I honour bound to re-organize the world's energy and matter until it's in the ideal state (which of course is never obtainable and not even definable, since it's different for each person)? The author has an issue with productiv…

The author has an issue with productivity for the sake of productivity.

I agree with that sentiment.

Spending time helping people in need is obviously a valuable and wise use of time, but you shouldn't feel guilty for not spending every waking moment increasing your net worth.

Again, I agree, but the author seems to be A-OK with goofing off for years instead of pitching in with the rest of us.

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