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Computer Scientists Ask Supreme Court to Rule APIs Can’t Be Copyrighted

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Re: Computer Scientists Ask Supreme Court to Rule APIs Can’t Be Copyrighted

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Copyright Act states: "In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work." The common belief is that an API meets this "system or method of operation" standard.

Hmm... What's a "method of operation" in the context of computer programs? This isn't helpful: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Method+of+oper... I really don't understand how an API is a method of operation in any sense. It's an understanding between people about how to use a software library. The only sense that I could see it being a method of operation is literally "This is a description of how you o…

> What's a "method of operation" in the context of computer programs?

The more dangerous question is "what is a computer program except a method of operation?"

Re: Computer Scientists Ask Supreme Court to Rule APIs Can’t Be Copyrighted

#82

Quick question: Why can't an API be copyrighted? My understanding is that the purpose of a copyright is to protect a specific arrangement of ideas. A piece of music, a book, a painting. All of those things are an arrangement, and the arrangement itself is what's protected by copyright, not the physical object that was created. So, given that an API is an arrangement of ideas, and that copyright apparently protects ar…

There's lots of previous caselaw in the U.S. suggesting API's are not copyrightable, basically on the theory that functionality itself, as well as factual statements or descriptions of something, are not copyrightable.

For instance, if you write a recipe, the -exact text- of that recipe is copyrightable, but the actual recipe itself is not -- someone else can reword it in their own words, with the same basic ingredients combined using the same operations, and that is not protected by the recipe-writer's copyright. This is (or was?) established in U.S. law.

Similarly, in the U.S. _functionality_, behaviors or operations themselves, are not copyrightable (although it may be patent-able). You can copy a competitors functionality exactly, as long as you do it with your own original implementation -- the functionality is not protected by copyright. (This is why people do 'clean room' compatible implementations by developers who never saw the original code they are copying the functionality of). In general, the right reverse engineer and reproduce the functionality of a technical work without the permission of the copyright holder of the original work -- is (or has been?) legal and protected.

(I am not sure the judges involved realized the relationship between promoting the copyrightability of API, and what this does to the previously well-established right to reverse engineer and create compatible things).

So the belief, previous to this case, was that an API is more like functionality, or the steps in the recipe. An implementation of an API is copyrightable -- but the description of the API itself, the classes, methods and signatures, are more like functionality or statements of fact, more like the steps of a recipe or a description of behavior. Both of which are not copyrightable -- you can't prevent someone from "doing the same thing", only from copying your particular code or text), then they are like a creative work in fixed medium themselves (the exact text of a particular written recipe, or a particular code implementation. (Patent law lets you prevent others from 'doing the same thing', but that's a different law with different requirements for what is patentable vs what is copyrightable, different legal rules for determining if a violation occured and what the penalties are, etc.)

You are (or were?) allowed to copy an API in your own implementation by reverse engineering in order to create a compatible implementation, and it doesn't make a lot of sense if you lose this right because you can get the API from docs instead of reverse engineering it.

I'd imagine you can get more details from various briefs involved these cases, as far as cites to specific previous law. But to many, the fact that API's are not copyrightable is what's consistent with existing law over copyright, including the lack of copyright over the actual operations of a recipe themselves and the protected ability to reverse engineer someone elses thing to create your own compatible implementation. It seems to many that making API's copyrightable is inconsistent with much existing law.

Re: Computer Scientists Ask Supreme Court to Rule APIs Can’t Be Copyrighted

#83
post #79
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've created MOOPH module in JavaScript. Purpose of this module is to make it easy to code a pseudomultithreaded application (so it can be seen as API). This module can be used to create various creative content (games, editors, whatever...). However one of possible pseudothreads may include quickly content from external sites to DOM - making a DOS. If multiple users access such project, it could make a DDOS. I hope…

If your software is so bad it's harmful to the general public, you don't release it at all, rather than relying on the law to somehow prevent bad people from misusing it.

My software works would not be complete and there's also non-criminal usage of load creating websites, for example testing...

Re: Computer Scientists Ask Supreme Court to Rule APIs Can’t Be Copyrighted

#84
post #55
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually a very major issue. They are copyrighted to varying degrees. The fact that feature "z" is located at "x,y" can't be copyrighted, but the data file that describes exactly that can be and is. (There are good reasons for this. It's not as simple as the straw man I set up there.) The US is very fortunate to require all government-produced cartographic data is solidly in the public domain. This is not the…

The US is very fortunate to require all government-produced cartographic data is solidly in the public domain. This is not the case in most countries. You can make the argument that making these maps costs money, so those that benefit from the maps should actually pay the government for them - thus people who don't need these maps don't have to pay for them through their taxes. I'm not entirely sure I subscribe to th…

So, the census needs maps (and best we are able to double check that, as it is used to apportion representatives). But also: the modern nation-state is, in many ways, founded on the notion of maps. A nation exists not just by itself but instead of and in place of other government. So it's pretty reasonable to assume public maps come from a time where e.g. the western border of the country was fuzzy and who controlled what was information of great importance. For instance, if it's 1823 and I'm looking to farmstead, a map both legitimizes, in some way, American rule, and delineates reality about Comanche raids (which were not something you'd want to bump into).

I generally like open government, but I think this particular practice may come from a history where maps were more interesting and relevant to the integrity of the nation-state.

Re: Computer Scientists Ask Supreme Court to Rule APIs Can’t Be Copyrighted

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Copyright Act states: "In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work." The common belief is that an API meets this "system or method of operation" standard.

Hmm... What's a "method of operation" in the context of computer programs? This isn't helpful: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Method+of+oper... I really don't understand how an API is a method of operation in any sense. It's an understanding between people about how to use a software library. The only sense that I could see it being a method of operation is literally "This is a description of how you o…

So, I think you are right that computer software problematisizes much of copyright law, and this is how we get to this confusing situation.

But to be clear, instruction booklets are copyrightable, but the _instructions_ are not. (Or haven't been prior to this case? I think some worry that if the logic of this case if carried through, many things that were previously not protected by copyright will become so).

Let's say you figure out, say, a great new way to assemble some tool, and write down instructions for it (1. Get a ball of twine. 2. Get some chewing gum. 3. Affix the chewing gum to twine.)

Your instruction booklet itself is copyrightble -- nobody can photocopy it without your permission. But the steps you figured out are not copyrightable, someone else can write down those steps in their own words, hey, look what we can do with chewing gum and twine, and that is not protected by copyright. You can't stop someone from sharing those steps with others in their own words, and you can't stop someone from carrying out those steps. (Under copyright, that is. The steps may be patentable; that's a different law. But they are not copyrightable. Or... didn't used to be?).

That's the way copyright has been. It seems to many that the API itself, and the ability to make new software with the same API, is more like "following the steps yourself in your own words", than it is like the "instruction booklet." If someone writes docs for their API with lots of good narrative instructions and examples -- nobody else can just copy that documentation ("instruction booklet") wholesale, that's protected by their copyright, nobody disputes that. But the classes, methods, and signatures themselves, prior to this case, most everyone thought were more like "steps themselves" and not subject to copyright.

An "an understanding between people" has in fact never been copyrightable in itself, you can't stop someone else from sharing the same understanding, under copryight. You could stop someone else from copying particular text describing that understanding, but only the particular text.

Re: Computer Scientists Ask Supreme Court to Rule APIs Can’t Be Copyrighted

#86
post #32
post #28

Signed by 1. Harold Abelson.* 2. Alfred V. Aho 3. Tom Ball.* 4. John Perry Barlow 5. Brian Behlendorf 6. Richard A. Belgard 7. Jon Bentley 8. Matthew Bishop 9. Joshua Bloch 10. Dan Boneh 11. Gilad Bracha.* 12. Eric Brewer.* 13. Frederick Brooks 14. Rick Cattell 15. Vinton G. Cerf.* 16. William Cook 17. Ward Cunningham 18. Mark Davis.* 19. Jeffrey Dean.* 20. L Peter Deutsch 21. David L. Dill 22. Les Earnest 23. Brenda…

I think it was a tactical mistake to include the folks affiliated with Google. Amicus briefs are supposed to be from parties who have an interest in the dispute, but not a personal stake in either party. Including so many people affiliated with Google will come across negatively.

It probably depends whether the people reading it know who the people signing it actually are. Vint Cerf, Ken Thompson and Ray Kurzweil now work for Google but that doesn't mean they aren't still Vint Cerf, Ken Thompson and Ray Kurzweil.

Re: Computer Scientists Ask Supreme Court to Rule APIs Can’t Be Copyrighted

#87
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it was a tactical mistake to include the folks affiliated with Google. Amicus briefs are supposed to be from parties who have an interest in the dispute, but not a personal stake in either party. Including so many people affiliated with Google will come across negatively.

It probably depends whether the people reading it know who the people signing it actually are. Vint Cerf, Ken Thompson and Ray Kurzweil now work for Google but that doesn't mean they aren't still Vint Cerf, Ken Thompson and Ray Kurzweil.

It also doesn't mean that they're not still Google employees.

Re: Computer Scientists Ask Supreme Court to Rule APIs Can’t Be Copyrighted

#88
Many in this thread seem to be wondering about the legal argument itself -- that API's being copyrightable is inconsistent with existing pretty well-established law.

Which is, yes, a different thing than arguing about whether it's "a good idea" for society or innovation or whatever. The EFF summary focuses on the "good idea" thing, but the actual amicus brief addresses both -- although I bet you can find even more of the legal arguments in the first party brief.

From the amicus brief, take a look at the original brief, starting on numbered page 4, "I. The Federal Circuit’s Decision Has Disrupted Decades of Settled Expectations That APIs Are Not Copyrightable"

> That assumption was well-founded. It was based, in large part, on this Court’s own recognition, in 1996, that menu hierarchies that control functional capabilities are a method of operation, and thus uncopyrightable under 17 U.S.C. § 102(b). Lotus Dev. Corp. v. Borland Int’l, Inc., 49 F.3d 807, 815 (1st Cir. 1995), aff’d by an equally divided Court, 516 U.S. 233 (1996). Programmers and developers relied on that ruling for the proposition that APIs, like the menu hierarchy in Lotus, may not be copyrighted under § 102(b). Ninth Circuit law—which should have been controlling in this case—was the same: the “functional requirements for compatibility” between computer programs “are not protected by copyright.” Sega Enters., Ltd., v. Accolade, Inc., 977 F.2d 1510, 1522 (9th Cir. 1992); see alsoSony Computer Ent’mt, Inc. v. Connectix Corp., 203 F.3d 596, 599–600 (9th Cir. 2000) (describing Sony’s PlayStation BIOS as a “system interface procedure[]” that Connectix was entitled to reimplement under § 102(b)).

Re: Computer Scientists Ask Supreme Court to Rule APIs Can’t Be Copyrighted

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm... What's a "method of operation" in the context of computer programs? This isn't helpful: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Method+of+oper... I really don't understand how an API is a method of operation in any sense. It's an understanding between people about how to use a software library. The only sense that I could see it being a method of operation is literally "This is a description of how you o…

> What's a "method of operation" in the context of computer programs? The more dangerous question is "what is a computer program except a method of operation?"

That isn't really a problem. You can have two programs that do the same thing, e.g. BSD cat and GNU cat, but you're copyrighting the specific implementation rather than the method of operation. Each method of operation can have arbitrarily many different implementations.

Re: Computer Scientists Ask Supreme Court to Rule APIs Can’t Be Copyrighted

#90
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've created MOOPH module in JavaScript. Purpose of this module is to make it easy to code a pseudomultithreaded application (so it can be seen as API). This module can be used to create various creative content (games, editors, whatever...). However one of possible pseudothreads may include quickly content from external sites to DOM - making a DOS. If multiple users access such project, it could make a DDOS. I hope…

You seem to be missing the meaning of the word API. I sugest you look it out.

I've always understood API as "Application" (meaning application, program, something similar to script) "Programming" (creating code, writing) "Interface" (abstract definition of meaning of variables and functions, preferably with some code that makes those meanings "live", something real, "behind" those variable and function names). Maybe I'm wrong.

However code is code, be it a library, module, framework, API, program or anything else...

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