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Sometimes, it’s just time to go home

benmilne.com

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Re: Sometimes, it’s just time to go home

#11

Post by 127001brewer »

javajosh wrote: post #4

Last year I worked for a startup and I allowed myself to be pushed past the breaking point. The founders tempted me with equity (which never actually materialized) and I ended up doing many all nighters and many 90-hour weeks prior to an early release (another company was doing the front-end while we did the server in-house). I don't have a wife or a puppy, but I shouldn't have allowed this to happen. I was hired to…

If we don't have a working build by 3pm tomorrow, we're all fired...

This is a bothersome and worrisome comment that probably has been repeated (in some variation) too often. How is this the fault of the developer(s)?

I appreciate that founders need to fulfill their promises, especially when having the backing of investors, but these type of statements seem to indicate a failure in communication and planning (more than execution).

Re: Sometimes, it’s just time to go home

#13

Post by sillysaurus3 »

snewman wrote: post #6
trevmckendrick wrote: post #2

I don't want to be a wet blanket, but when I read how hard he and others work, the first thought that comes to me is: "I'm not working even close to that level." In a way, it's a glimpse into the reality required to do Great Things. Followed by the painful self-awareness that you're nowhere close.

Great Things require dedication, passion, and vision. Working yourself to death is not on the list of requirements, and in fact can often be counter-productive. If you're passionate about your job, you're likely to work hard. But there's a line between "working hard", and overworking. Beyond a certain point, more hours may (or may not) mean more things done, but almost certainly doesn't mean more of the right things…

Great Things require dedication, passion, and vision. Working yourself to death is not on the list of requirements

If that's true, it should be possible to make a list of companies that have been built without the founders working very hard (or rather, extremely long hours). What are some companies that could go onto such a list?

As a filter, let's use criteria "The founders got rich enough not to have to work anymore, or the company went public," since that's generally why people start startups.

EDIT: I've updated the question to ask specifically for instances of companies that have IPO'd or been acquired without the founders working extremely long hours, and also to clarify that I'm asking about the founders' working hours, not the employees. Thanks, enjo.

Re: Sometimes, it’s just time to go home

#14

Post by enjo »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #13
snewman wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great Things require dedication, passion, and vision. Working yourself to death is not on the list of requirements, and in fact can often be counter-productive. If you're passionate about your job, you're likely to work hard. But there's a line between "working hard", and overworking. Beyond a certain point, more hours may (or may not) mean more things done, but almost certainly doesn't mean more of the right things…

Great Things require dedication, passion, and vision. Working yourself to death is not on the list of requirements If that's true, it should be possible to make a list of companies that have been built without the founders working very hard (or rather, extremely long hours). What are some companies that could go onto such a list? As a filter, let's use criteria "The founders got rich enough not to have to work anymor…

You got the wrong phrase. The question is can you build a successful company without working long hours, not "without working very hard". At Quickoffice we worked very hard.

We'd have the occasional long night, but there weren't many even 60 hour weeks being put in.

Re: Sometimes, it’s just time to go home

#15

Post by hemantv »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #13
snewman wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great Things require dedication, passion, and vision. Working yourself to death is not on the list of requirements, and in fact can often be counter-productive. If you're passionate about your job, you're likely to work hard. But there's a line between "working hard", and overworking. Beyond a certain point, more hours may (or may not) mean more things done, but almost certainly doesn't mean more of the right things…

Great Things require dedication, passion, and vision. Working yourself to death is not on the list of requirements If that's true, it should be possible to make a list of companies that have been built without the founders working very hard (or rather, extremely long hours). What are some companies that could go onto such a list? As a filter, let's use criteria "The founders got rich enough not to have to work anymor…

I think you are confusing working hard vs working to death. I work hard everyday but at some point in a given day I realize that I am not productive anymore.

If something is menial, doesn't require much mental process. Than its okay to keep going but if its something new which require even small amount of mental effort than working super hard is not going to get you anywhere.

I also sometimes work late, because I don't want the context switch that will happen if I leave the task in half completed state right now so I want to take it to logical conclusion where it would easy to pickup next day (in most cases I am excited to see the end product of task).

As with everything in life there is fine line between working hard vs working yourself to death and nobody else can decide this line for you.

Re: Sometimes, it’s just time to go home

#16

Post by akerl_ »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #13
snewman wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great Things require dedication, passion, and vision. Working yourself to death is not on the list of requirements, and in fact can often be counter-productive. If you're passionate about your job, you're likely to work hard. But there's a line between "working hard", and overworking. Beyond a certain point, more hours may (or may not) mean more things done, but almost certainly doesn't mean more of the right things…

Great Things require dedication, passion, and vision. Working yourself to death is not on the list of requirements If that's true, it should be possible to make a list of companies that have been built without the founders working very hard (or rather, extremely long hours). What are some companies that could go onto such a list? As a filter, let's use criteria "The founders got rich enough not to have to work anymor…

That's quite the strawman. Nobody is claiming success doesn't require hard work. But there's a serious gap between working hard and working yourself into an early grave.

Re: Sometimes, it’s just time to go home

#17

Post by dcw303 »

snewman wrote: post #6
trevmckendrick wrote: post #2

I don't want to be a wet blanket, but when I read how hard he and others work, the first thought that comes to me is: "I'm not working even close to that level." In a way, it's a glimpse into the reality required to do Great Things. Followed by the painful self-awareness that you're nowhere close.

Great Things require dedication, passion, and vision. Working yourself to death is not on the list of requirements, and in fact can often be counter-productive. If you're passionate about your job, you're likely to work hard. But there's a line between "working hard", and overworking. Beyond a certain point, more hours may (or may not) mean more things done, but almost certainly doesn't mean more of the right things…

Great point. No matter how engrossing or important the work I'm doing is, I've never been able to push myself to work past midnight. Something biological tells me I am done, my brain turns to soup, and I know I've gone past the point of diminishing returns. I've never been able to fool myself into believing that there is any point in doing any more.

I look at these guys pushing themselves beyond the point of physical, mental and emotion exhaustion, and I just wonder how they do it. I wonder what drives them go on.

Re: Sometimes, it’s just time to go home

#18

Post by moron4hire »

One reaction: "grow up". Stop letting other people dictate how you live your life. That is what parents do for children. Becoming an adult means making your own decisions about how to spend your time, and when enough is enough. Grow up. Stop putting other people, ones not even that close to you, first. Grow up.

Re: Sometimes, it’s just time to go home

#19

Post by abuteau »

It shouldn't be the way. We met Brad Feld last year in Las Vegas (Up Summit) and he talked about his depression[1]. I suggest everyone to read the depression archives on Brad Feld blog [2]. Pretty insightful posts. I tend to be obsessive and I lost someone I really care about because of focus on money and too much work. At the end of the day, you have to focus on your priorities, your wife/family is one and should deserve a decent amount of attention. Brad said that when Amy call him whenever he's in a meeting he will still answer, because she's a priority. Outworking yourself is not likely the way you will succeed in the long run. Work hard != work smart

George Bernard Shaw said: "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

1. http://www.inc.com/magazine/201307/brad-feld/many-entreprene...

2. http://www.feld.com/archives/tag/depression

Re: Sometimes, it’s just time to go home

#20

Post by sillysaurus3 »

hemantv wrote: post #15
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great Things require dedication, passion, and vision. Working yourself to death is not on the list of requirements If that's true, it should be possible to make a list of companies that have been built without the founders working very hard (or rather, extremely long hours). What are some companies that could go onto such a list? As a filter, let's use criteria "The founders got rich enough not to have to work anymor…

I think you are confusing working hard vs working to death. I work hard everyday but at some point in a given day I realize that I am not productive anymore. If something is menial, doesn't require much mental process. Than its okay to keep going but if its something new which require even small amount of mental effort than working super hard is not going to get you anywhere. I also sometimes work late, because I don…

I agree with everything you've said, but if it's true that you can get rich from a startup without working extremely long hours, we should be able to find some evidence of that. And if there's no evidence, then maybe we should rethink whether it's true.
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