Live data from Hacker News

Amazon Echo

amazon.com

311–320 of 746 posts

Re: Amazon Echo

#311

This "internet-of-things" trend coincides unfortunately with the "dragnet surveillance" trend. With every new product launch from a "cloud company," I increasingly feel as if I'm reading the tombstone of modern society. The selling point behind these devices is convenience, but at the cost of security. I don't think I need to explain to HN why an always-on, internet connected voice recording device is something to ke…

I get your point, but on the topic of paranoia breeding paranoia, (1) I'm not sure if there is really a causal relationship there, and (2) the government's paranoia a fear of alleged domestic and foreign threats to our safety, well-being, way of life, etc. while the people's paranoia is that the NSA knows what I ate for breakfast.

Despite whether either threat is real or not, I'm less concerned about my facebook privacy being violated and more concerned with foreign and domestic threats of violence.

I have a choice not to use facebook or amazon echo, or whatever. Problem solved on that front. I don't have a choice if somebody wants to fly a plane into dense metro areas with the goal of killing as many people as possible.

Are you telling me that you feel amazon echo is a larger potential threat to your security than alleged terrorist organizations?

Re: Amazon Echo

#312

While most of the posts are, and probably should be, concerned with the privacy implications of this device if/when it reaches peoples' homes, I also wonder the plain-old "will this flop?" Adding voice recognition to things isn't a new idea, and the threshold for when it's "good enough" for the general populace for any use case is pretty poorly understood and/or quantified. Is this a use case people would be interest…

It seems to me that the main innovation here is the quality of the microphone array.

As a professional sound recordist, the #1 challenge of recording from a fixed point is that the ambient noise and reflections within the room rapidly swamp the original signal when you record from a point source. You can hear someone talk from the far side of a room in person very easily, because your brain constantly compensates for the acoustic environment it is currently in. But when you hear a recording made in a different acoustic environment (eg a scene in a movie) then your tolerance for background noise is far lower, because you become acutely aware that the acoustics are not responsive to positional adjustments - in much the same way that the image on a screen is limited to a plane.

So when recording sound for film or video, we tend to use special microphones with long barrels (which are highly directional) or fit actors and/or sets with very small microphones that only pick up sounds in close proximity and then transmit them by radio or wire. There are also parabolic microphones, but they're unwieldy and hard to focus plus they still pick up a lot of ambience, so they're better for things like sporting events where players repeatedly stand in predictable positions. The aim in recording sound this way is to get the actor's vocal performance with as little ambient noise as possible, which is then supplemented in post-production with additional recordings of background elements that can be layered in a controlled fashion. When recording on location rather on a sound stage, a large percentage of the takes are made for sound reasons; you would not believe how noisy the world is until you start trying to make quiet recordings of it. On almost every film project I have to have an argument with the producers at the early stage to be allowed (and paid) to come on location scouts, because most people are incapable of assessing the noise level of a location - their brains are so good at filtering out ambient noise and focusing on the conversations they're having about how the place looks that they are oblivious to how it sounds! I've been taken to what I was told was a quiet location only to discover that it was in the flight path of an airport 8-o

Anyway, the nice thing about this machine is the differential microphone array at the top. As well as providing a more accurate signal by simple differentiation, recording the device's own output and measuring what comes back in allows it to acoustically model the space it is in and then subtract that model from the input stream so as to isolate command spoken from across the room. I'd guess that most of this signal processing takes place on a DSP, and that the actual speech recognition is done in the cloud - though maybe not, as cheap CPUs pack so much punch nowadays. If you could hear the input to the speech recognition subsystem, it would sound oddly attenuated as it is stripped of any acoustic cues whatsoever.

I think the device will succeed or fail based on how semantically responsive it is - although different people will have different expectations and tolerances. For example:

You: Echo, I want to hear some new music!

Echo: How about the new album from XYZ?

You: Sure, I'll give that a try.

(music plays)

You: Echo, this music sucks.

(music keeps playing)

If Amazon (or anyone) can get a leg up on this sort of responsive conversation rather than just requiring the user to dictate commands all the time, they'll have a winner, even if it's little more than an Eliza front-end to a search engine.

Re: Amazon Echo

#313

This "internet-of-things" trend coincides unfortunately with the "dragnet surveillance" trend. With every new product launch from a "cloud company," I increasingly feel as if I'm reading the tombstone of modern society. The selling point behind these devices is convenience, but at the cost of security. I don't think I need to explain to HN why an always-on, internet connected voice recording device is something to ke…

The scary part is that you can't protect yourself easily from those around you. For example, let's say you like to maintain your privacy, and you're careful about anything you post online, you're careful not to have an always on microphone, such as the Echo, you're careful not to have a smart television with a video camera connected to the internet in your living room, etc. That's great, and up to you to decide, but…

> Eiffel tower (...) southern France (...) Italy

You have an excellent comment, but you fail at ponting at how this info may be used against you and providing usecases. Should sound like: "On Feb 1st your car is recorded on the leftish party's parking lot" "On Feb 2nd you are arrested in person at a friend's place for the speed excess of Jan 26th. Police automatically suponead your network's Echos".

Re: Amazon Echo

#314

I'm a little frustrated at the moment -- The future is arriving with voice controlled devices, yet I don't trust any of these companies with my words.

Your paranoia is nobody's fault but your own.

Re: Amazon Echo

#315
Does anybody know what Amazon Echo will be using as their search engine - Google, Bing? Or is Amazon developing their own search/knowledge engine? If so, is this just the beginning of Amazon trying to encroach on Google Search?

Re: Amazon Echo

#316

I want one of these, but then the NSA may be listening to me. Plus, I don't have electricity. It started when I thought that the NSA had bugged my computer, so I got rid of my computer. Later on, I knew those shifty guys would bug my house, so I sold my house and moved to the forest. But in the forest, I knew they trained the squirrels to report in on my status to them. Jokes on them, I have the squirrels trained as…

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/07/the-de...

Re: Amazon Echo

#317

> With enhanced noise cancellation, Echo can hear you ask a question even while it's playing music. I read: "Our cloud servers can hear you, no matter what." It's a killer idea. It's too bad privacy concerns might lead it to an early grave.

Agreed. And on the idea that it's ridiculous they are listening all the time, and 1984 comparisons, it's worth knowing in 1984 they weren't continually listening, but they might be. I read this book in the 1970s at school, i think it's time to re-read.

http://www.george-orwell.org/1984/0.html quote: There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You had to live -- did live, from habit that became instinct -- in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized.

Re: Amazon Echo

#318

I'm a little frustrated at the moment -- The future is arriving with voice controlled devices, yet I don't trust any of these companies with my words.

Same sentiment. We all know, that the existing cloud voice recognition features such as Siri, Samsung Smart TVs and upcomoning feature etc etc will eventually hunt some uf us (or all of us) down. We must build new tech concepts, where privacy and _full_ controll and 100% ownership of our data is controlled by us. From the ground up. Not sure if SV and HN is the best location to put such a statement - but I do hope I'…

Just like gun registration, passports, driver licenses, and cell phones are, huh. That's why we all live in constant fear of our tyrannical overlords.

Re: Amazon Echo

#319
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no, not everyone does and i think reinforcing that belief is harmful because it makes people think they don't have a choice, when they really do. there are a growing number of people who freely choose alternatives that respect their privacy/dignity/rights. i am one of those people. to the extent i can't control all data about me (e.g. to pay my taxes or get health insurance), that's pretty different than choosing to…

What alternatives have you chosen that makes you feel more secure? I'm genuinely curious.

the commenter mentioned e-mail (self-hosted, though i can't control recipients' copies), files (offline drives/tahoe-lafs if needed), and operating systems (mostly debian without binary blobs).

my choices don't necessarily make me feel more secure--just was pointing out that not everyone is already trusting major tech companies with all of their data all of the time.

alternatives that better respect my privacy/rights/autonomy really do exist and people really do have choices. these choices are getting easier to make all the time, too, e.g. owncloud.

Re: Amazon Echo

#320
I recently bought into the Sonos ecosystem. While it is pretty limited in some ways (I can't just stream stuff playing on my phone to the Sonos speakers, for example if I am playing a random YouTube video), it has one really good thing going for it: it can sync playback between an arbitrary number of speakers. This is my new standard for this type of thing: speakers that cannot do this are inferior to Sonos. In that regard, their claim that it's also a wireless speaker doesn't appeal to me.

Having said that, this thing looks very cool. Imagine this, connected to a home automation system:

"Alexa, turn off lights in the kitchen."

"Alexa, arm the alarm system."

"Alexa, I am cold."

"Alexa, open the garage door."

"Alexa, start my car."

I know every comment here must mention privacy, so I'll follow the trend. Yes, it listens to you, and sends data to the cloud. However, I am still most likely going to buy one because, well, I can always unplug it.

Post reply on HN