Amazon Echo • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Echo

#211

Post by leeber » Thu, Nov 06, 2014, 6:21 PM UTC

cvburgess wrote: post #199

leeber wrote: post #192

To everyone worried about privacy: We all trust our e-mail to be stored in the cloud, we store sensitive files etc on services like dropbox, we trust that our operating systems aren't collecting/sending data, etc. You're already using and relying upon MANY services with the ability (if they really wanted to) to steal TONS of private information from you. It all comes down to trust. But don't pretend like this opens u…

The main selling point of a macbook is not that it can identify exactly what you say, when you said it, and send that data back to a central server that is "always getting smarter". There is also a VERY big difference for me between the things that I type into my computer and the conversations I have in my home. I say many things in an imperfect form or with a dry sense of humor - I rarely save incomplete or out-of-c…

Who cares about what the selling point is? Neither Amazon Echo or Apple is claiming to secretly listen to your most intimate and private conversations, so it can report everything you say over to the NSA.

BUT, those are two devices that would have full capabilities to do so if they really wanted to.

The point is, we trust (or do not) that these services that have access to sensitive information -- are only doing what they CLAIM they are doing with regards to privacy.

Re: Amazon Echo

#212

Post by AngrySkillzz » Thu, Nov 06, 2014, 6:23 PM UTC

lowglow wrote: post #124

isu89 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privacy is possibly becoming a generation gap issue; throw enough of these against the wall and people will just stop caring until they can quantize a real world impact

You say that, but I think young people are concerned with privacy: see snapchat, etc

Snapchat is in no way private.

Re: Amazon Echo

#213

Post by kin » Thu, Nov 06, 2014, 6:23 PM UTC

My favorite feature is getting to pick my one wake word. Cortana, Dinklebot, Jarvis, GLaDOS. Now if I could pick the voice...

Re: Amazon Echo

#214

Post by leeber » Thu, Nov 06, 2014, 6:23 PM UTC

justcommenting wrote: post #203

leeber wrote: post #192

To everyone worried about privacy: We all trust our e-mail to be stored in the cloud, we store sensitive files etc on services like dropbox, we trust that our operating systems aren't collecting/sending data, etc. You're already using and relying upon MANY services with the ability (if they really wanted to) to steal TONS of private information from you. It all comes down to trust. But don't pretend like this opens u…

no, not everyone does and i think reinforcing that belief is harmful because it makes people think they don't have a choice, when they really do. there are a growing number of people who freely choose alternatives that respect their privacy/dignity/rights. i am one of those people. to the extent i can't control all data about me (e.g. to pay my taxes or get health insurance), that's pretty different than choosing to…

What alternatives have you chosen that makes you feel more secure? I'm genuinely curious.

Re: Amazon Echo

#215

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Nov 06, 2014, 6:24 PM UTC

r0h1n wrote: post #194

Someone1234 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Incorrect. The device is always listening, waiting for you to say "Alexa" so that it can start acting upon your commands. You say "incorrect" then re-phase exactly what I said in a different way but retain exactly the same meaning. The detection of the key word is on-chip. That's all that matters. Until the chip signals that it was spoken nothing is transmitted. > So no, this isn't "pathetic baseless fear mongering…

What you are saying is technologically correct, possible and prevalent but I couldn't find Amazon saying it anywhere on their page. Can you point me to the part where Amazon says nothing is ever stored/transmitted unless "Alexa" is spoken?

[deleted]

Re: Amazon Echo

#216

Post by rubencodes » Thu, Nov 06, 2014, 6:24 PM UTC

ljk wrote: post #165

irishcoffee wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a smartphone with Siri or the equiv app on it (Android, Windows) your device is already 'always listening.' I fail to see the difference. People carry around a GPS tracking device with a mic and camera built-in. They use it to post their entire lives on social networks. And they're worried about privacy. Hilarious.

> People carry around a GPS tracking device with a mic and camera built-in. They use it to post their entire lives on social networks. And they're worried about privacy. i think people who are worried about privacy are not the people who are broadcasting their entire lives on social networks

You are correct. And those few people NOT having their lives online are decidedly not the target audience to begin with.

Re: Amazon Echo

#217

Post by vezzy-fnord » Thu, Nov 06, 2014, 6:24 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #180

Crito wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I, as a consumer that hypothetically owns one of these, control the software that is running on it?

Can you, as a consumer control the baseband on your cellphone?

I suppose with a lot of constraints that you can, using something like OsmocomBB: http://bb.osmocom.org/trac/

Re: Amazon Echo

#218

Post by aarkay » Thu, Nov 06, 2014, 6:24 PM UTC

This is awesome. I have a MotoX with always on listening, but I only use that aspect of it at home. Since the phone is optimized for close proximity listening it often doesn't work when its slightly far away. If the voice recognition works as well as they say it will, then this could be really useful.

Re: Amazon Echo

#219

Post by justcommenting » Thu, Nov 06, 2014, 6:24 PM UTC

asafira wrote: post #159

While most of the posts are, and probably should be, concerned with the privacy implications of this device if/when it reaches peoples' homes, I also wonder the plain-old "will this flop?" Adding voice recognition to things isn't a new idea, and the threshold for when it's "good enough" for the general populace for any use case is pretty poorly understood and/or quantified. Is this a use case people would be interest…

i think you're underestimating how deeply entrenched 'surveillance as a business model' has become amongst leading american tech companies in recent years. this has much less to do with latent consumer demand than companies wanting to leverage that information for advertising and related purposes and desperately trying to craft a value proposition that justifies and normalizes more intrusive forms of data collection.

Re: Amazon Echo

#220

Post by cheeze » Thu, Nov 06, 2014, 6:25 PM UTC

chrisBob wrote: post #197

My favorite connected device is still an old iPad2 that I have connected to my TV. The advantages are: 1) The iPad has much better app support than most other TV connected devices. I can watch shows from Amazon, Hulu, HGTV, HBO, ... even the olympics have been well supported. The only issue I have is that there is no remote, and I don't see a good path to adding one. 2) I am a little less worried about privacy issues…

> The only issue I have is that there is no remote, and I don't see a good path to adding one.

And that is the nail in the coffin for tons of users. If I have a device connected to my TV, and have to get up to open an app, play, pause, etc. that is a huge problem.

My favorite connected device is a cheap box running windows. I can watch shows from Amazon, Hulu, HGTV, HBO, olympics. It has two remotes (media remote and a wireless kb/mouse combo), I can beam youtube videos to it from my phone, watch any flash based video players, and can use the "full" internet easily. The only thing it's missing is some sort of siri/cortana/echo functionality, although I'm guessing that I could add it with some work.