Here's another idea: Do like 2 days a month of consulting and move to a more desirable zip code.
...and what exactly do you get out of a more "desirable zip code" if you're living the penniless startup life?
How to Survive in SF as a Broke Startup
41–50 of 120 posts
Re: How to Survive in SF as a Broke Startup
#42Interesting. To live here in South Africa on those numbers you'd have to make similar sacrifices, in an economy which I normally regard as 10x cheaper than (what I've heard of) SF. Some questions: 1. When I hear people on this site talking about "low" startup engineer wages in SF, the numbers I see are 60k - 80k / year. But this article makes that number look like glorious riches by comparison. Living in the dining r…
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Re: How to Survive in SF as a Broke Startup
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
In short, it s because you seem to assume that the description of the neighborhood given was also the reason why it is cheaper. (It isn't, the reason is because its way the away from the center of town with almost nothing but residential areas). Generally stereotypes as a concept are considered inherently pejorative in the USA. Secondly, your inference that people are avoiding the neighborhood is because of the local…
> you seem to assume that the description of the neighborhood given was also the reason why it is cheaper The OP wrote: "Sure, it’s 80% Chinese American, but [it's cheaper]". That made me wonder too why the ethnicity would be a drawback.
All he is saying is that the demographics are heavily skewed, which is typically considered unusual. The ideal being an area that is representative of the population at large.
Re: How to Survive in SF as a Broke Startup
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding how this site works (had this account for years but only commented a few times). It looks like my comment was downvoted, can someone explain why? Is thinking about stereotypes offensive? Or it was deemed irrelevant?
In short, it s because you seem to assume that the description of the neighborhood given was also the reason why it is cheaper. (It isn't, the reason is because its way the away from the center of town with almost nothing but residential areas). Generally stereotypes as a concept are considered inherently pejorative in the USA. Secondly, your inference that people are avoiding the neighborhood is because of the local…
Stereotypes are ok as long as you're stereotyping straight white cis-men.
Re: How to Survive in SF as a Broke Startup
#45Interesting. To live here in South Africa on those numbers you'd have to make similar sacrifices, in an economy which I normally regard as 10x cheaper than (what I've heard of) SF. Some questions: 1. When I hear people on this site talking about "low" startup engineer wages in SF, the numbers I see are 60k - 80k / year. But this article makes that number look like glorious riches by comparison. Living in the dining r…
It's not so much about it being Asian, but the Outer Sunset is about as far away you can get from "the action" and still be in San Francisco. Also, it's colder and foggier than points east. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Outer+Sunset,+San+Francisc...
Super uninformed question, but is there access to beaches or the ocean at all over there?
Re: How to Survive in SF as a Broke Startup
#46You might as well open a small restaurant. It looks like the presentation of your food is attracting enough. Not sure about the taste.
Re: How to Survive in SF as a Broke Startup
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not so much about it being Asian, but the Outer Sunset is about as far away you can get from "the action" and still be in San Francisco. Also, it's colder and foggier than points east. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Outer+Sunset,+San+Francisc...
Super uninformed question, but is there access to beaches or the ocean at all over there?
Yes, there is. It's a nice beach for walks, but the water is pretty chilly, year round.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sunset+District,+San+Franc...
Re: How to Survive in SF as a Broke Startup
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not so much about it being Asian, but the Outer Sunset is about as far away you can get from "the action" and still be in San Francisco. Also, it's colder and foggier than points east. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Outer+Sunset,+San+Francisc...
Super uninformed question, but is there access to beaches or the ocean at all over there?
Yes absolutely the beach is right down the street, you can see it on the map. :)
Re: How to Survive in SF as a Broke Startup
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not so much about it being Asian, but the Outer Sunset is about as far away you can get from "the action" and still be in San Francisco. Also, it's colder and foggier than points east. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Outer+Sunset,+San+Francisc...
Super uninformed question, but is there access to beaches or the ocean at all over there?
Outer Sunset is right next to Ocean Beach [1]. It isn't that bad if you can tolerate the fog, and daytime temperatures in May-Sept will frequently be in the 12-16 C range. And it's only 20-30 min from the downtown hotspots, and maybe 60 mins drive to Sandhill Road (traffic permitting).
The real saving the author is getting is on rent, the Asian food shops, etc, are not that much cheaper than Walmart, but much more tasty.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_Beach,_San_Francisco
Re: How to Survive in SF as a Broke Startup
#50Interesting. To live here in South Africa on those numbers you'd have to make similar sacrifices, in an economy which I normally regard as 10x cheaper than (what I've heard of) SF. Some questions: 1. When I hear people on this site talking about "low" startup engineer wages in SF, the numbers I see are 60k - 80k / year. But this article makes that number look like glorious riches by comparison. Living in the dining r…
I know that it wasn't the point of your post, but I think the 10x comparison is a bit off (I'm also in SA).
On paper SA is supposed to have a purchasing power parity of around -50 to -60% [1] (so, things are on average that much cheaper here than in the USA). Of course, SF is significantly more expensive than other places in the USA (although typically not more than a factor of say, 1.5 to 2x). If we add all this up, we've still only got to (at the outer edge) a factor of say 2 to 4x more expensive, not 10x. One website puts this number at around 2.6x for an SF to Johannesburg comparison [2].
The other issue is that SA has an extremely bifuricated economy (see our GINI index score), and local prices definitely also reflect this. I'm not sure to what degree the PPP measurements reflect this - I believe the PPP number is a national average, and the average prices in SA are aimed at people living close to or below the poverty line. These prices are typically not available (geographically) to your average software developer, who in SA easily falls into the (upper?) middle class category for the country. Their costs are drawn from that environment, too. Even if you choose to be frugal, the shops you find in the suburbs here are much more expensive than what the national average may be. On a similar note, appliances and high-tech goods typically tend to be along the lines of "find the item on the 'net, convert from USD to ZAR, add 10 to 20%", so we're definitely not seeing PPP-level savings there. There are also some other factors which are relatively unique to SA, such as the need for additional security (monthly payments to armed response companies, etc), growing trend (or need?) to send children to private schools, etc.
Apart from the above price factors making the PPP number unrealistic, most people here also seem to have high expectations of standards of living, e.g. expecting to buy property quite early on, driving shiny new cars, having houses which are usually > 200 m2, come with swimming pools, have large gardens which need gardeners to be hired, cleaners to be hired, etc (this is all a bit strange to me, coming from an eastern European background where we have a far lesser sense of entitlement).
So really, all I'm trying to say is, we're definitely not ~10x cheaper here, especially if you consider typical suburb shopping prices and some of our more unusual, frequently ignored costs. The high standards of living can be considered things we do to ourselves voluntarily (and as you say, sacrifices can be made there).
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity
[2] http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?coun...