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How to Survive in SF as a Broke Startup

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Re: How to Survive in SF as a Broke Startup

#11

Post by rtpg »

davidedicillo wrote: post #8
rtpg wrote: post #4

Does anyone have an update on the utility of building a startup in SF? Except maybe for the (certainly large) class of "interacting with real world" or "local" startups (like Uber or Grubhub) I feel like you could gain so much more by even being outside of LA or something instead.

The access to people you have here (for advices, fundraising, selling your company, etc.) can't be found anywhere else. That doesn't mean you can't do it anywhere else, but here it's just much easier.

So I guess everywhere around SF is also the same sort of price range? I mean I don't think Steve McClure cares too much if you had to drive 90 minutes to see him right?

I'm just surprised at what people go to to be really in downtown SF. That money could arguably be better spent making sure that the founders/employees eat more than cup noodles for the first 6 months, if it means driving 90 minutes to go to meetings or events.

Re: How to Survive in SF as a Broke Startup

#12

Post by timr »

rtpg wrote: post #4

Does anyone have an update on the utility of building a startup in SF? Except maybe for the (certainly large) class of "interacting with real world" or "local" startups (like Uber or Grubhub) I feel like you could gain so much more by even being outside of LA or something instead.

It's a huge disadvantage unless you're doing something that depends on access to a large number of high-quality (but expensive) engineers and/or rich people.

Building a tool for programmers? The valley might be your place. Building a fashion startup? Go where people are fashionable.

Building a search engine? There are a lot of search people here. Building a service startup that requires warehouses, inventory and/or logistics expertise? Go to the places where logistics people are running warehouses.

Building a streaming video site? Many of the best network engineers in the world live in the valley. Building a two-sided marketplace for used children's clothing? You might want to go somewhere that people can afford to have children.

Building yet another on-demand, Uber-for-X service where the value proposition is weak/nonexistent for people who aren't workaholic techno-utopians? Yeah, OK. You could probably only do that sort of thing here. San Francisco is the world capital for people who have more disposable income than incredulity.

Re: How to Survive in SF as a Broke Startup

#13

Post by lifeformed »

Why not just move somewhere else? To me, the best part of an internet company is that you can work from anywhere. Also, the money you make is usually made online, meaning it doesn't scale to your cost of living. If you make $1000/mo in ad revenue from your website, it doesn't matter if you live in SF or Portland. It's not like a wage, which changes drastically on your location.

Why not move to an awesome, affordable city, live the lifestyle you want, and still make the same product? With the money you save, you could fly monthly to SF to have whatever important meetings are critical to do in SF. Is living in SF that critical? Maybe it is, I honestly don't know.

Re: How to Survive in SF as a Broke Startup

#14

Post by davidw »

rtpg wrote: post #11
davidedicillo wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The access to people you have here (for advices, fundraising, selling your company, etc.) can't be found anywhere else. That doesn't mean you can't do it anywhere else, but here it's just much easier.

So I guess everywhere around SF is also the same sort of price range? I mean I don't think Steve McClure cares too much if you had to drive 90 minutes to see him right? I'm just surprised at what people go to to be really in downtown SF. That money could arguably be better spent making sure that the founders/employees eat more than cup noodles for the first 6 months, if it means driving 90 minutes to go to meetings o…

There's a whole budding movement of people doing the bootstrapped thing... patio11 of course, also people like Rob Walling, Amy Hoy and lots of others.

They tend to be in lots of different places, most of which are not expensive places to live.

Where I am in my life, I actually find that much more appealing than the typical bay area startup, although I don't feel the need to be 'against' VC fueled startups either - they're capable of doing some things that bootstrapped companies can't.

Re: How to Survive in SF as a Broke Startup

#15

Post by rpm33 »

If you are a student, don't try to do this. Instead, stay at college as much as possible to leverage the network. If you've dropped out of college, try to crash on a friend's couch till he/she gets annoyed and kicks you out. For everyone else, unless your gut is wrenching from a feeling that the solar system will stop expanding without you, go find a job, save some money, get some advice and then try to stumble upon a startup idea along the way. This op-ed makes sense if your idea has been validated and you are struggling to bootstrap/raise angel investment. The time value of money is clearly neglected here, the amount of time you spend trying to live frugally can instead be spent in raising money.

Re: How to Survive in SF as a Broke Startup

#16

Post by mahmud »

timr wrote: post #12
rtpg wrote: post #4

Does anyone have an update on the utility of building a startup in SF? Except maybe for the (certainly large) class of "interacting with real world" or "local" startups (like Uber or Grubhub) I feel like you could gain so much more by even being outside of LA or something instead.

It's a huge disadvantage unless you're doing something that depends on access to a large number of high-quality (but expensive) engineers and/or rich people. Building a tool for programmers? The valley might be your place. Building a fashion startup? Go where people are fashionable. Building a search engine? There are a lot of search people here. Building a service startup that requires warehouses, inventory and/or l…

This the premise of a good chunk of Reid Hoffman's Startup Class lecture.

http://startupclass.samaltman.com/courses/lec13/

Re: How to Survive in SF as a Broke Startup

#17

Post by timr »

mahmud wrote: post #16
timr wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a huge disadvantage unless you're doing something that depends on access to a large number of high-quality (but expensive) engineers and/or rich people. Building a tool for programmers? The valley might be your place. Building a fashion startup? Go where people are fashionable. Building a search engine? There are a lot of search people here. Building a service startup that requires warehouses, inventory and/or l…

This the premise of a good chunk of Reid Hoffman's Startup Class lecture. http://startupclass.samaltman.com/courses/lec13/

Yep. He's (sadly) one of the few people here who is saying that stuff aloud, though.

Re: How to Survive in SF as a Broke Startup

#18

Post by abalone »

Tradeoff: Living with your cofounders in the dining room of your office might possibly, you know, increase stress and strain among the group.

Also that's a lot of time spent making meals. I doubt he's including researching recipes, shopping & cleaning up for 3 meals a day in his 1 hr/day estimate.

Re: How to Survive in SF as a Broke Startup

#19

Post by zingar »

Interesting. To live here in South Africa on those numbers you'd have to make similar sacrifices, in an economy which I normally regard as 10x cheaper than (what I've heard of) SF. Some questions:

1. When I hear people on this site talking about "low" startup engineer wages in SF, the numbers I see are 60k - 80k / year. But this article makes that number look like glorious riches by comparison. Living in the dining room sounds pretty extreme, what are the sacrifices made for living on 60k? Presumably nowhere near as onerous?

2. It's fascinating to me that an Asian-American neighbourhood is cheaper than elsewhere. As a foreigner with only stereotypes to work from, Asian-Americans sound like the perfect neighbours... quiet, industrious, and likely to have kids with similar values whom I'd be glad to have my own hypothetical kids meet. So why then would this neighbourhood be unpopular? Are my stereotypes wrong? Is there something else in particular about this neighbourhood that I'm missing? Or perhaps USAians like to interact with their neighbours more than I do?

Re: How to Survive in SF as a Broke Startup

#20

Post by [deleted] »

davidw wrote: post #14
rtpg wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I guess everywhere around SF is also the same sort of price range? I mean I don't think Steve McClure cares too much if you had to drive 90 minutes to see him right? I'm just surprised at what people go to to be really in downtown SF. That money could arguably be better spent making sure that the founders/employees eat more than cup noodles for the first 6 months, if it means driving 90 minutes to go to meetings o…

There's a whole budding movement of people doing the bootstrapped thing... patio11 of course, also people like Rob Walling, Amy Hoy and lots of others. They tend to be in lots of different places, most of which are not expensive places to live. Where I am in my life, I actually find that much more appealing than the typical bay area startup, although I don't feel the need to be 'against' VC fueled startups either - t…

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