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The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker: Xu Lizhi (1990-2014)

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Re: The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker: Xu Lizhi (1990-2014)

#21

Post by abandonliberty »

CognitiveLens wrote: post #14

Suicide is a tragedy and people should always do what they can to prevent it. However, it is also something that will always occur in some portion of the population, typically as the result of depression. We should not ignore the fact that the suicide rate in, for example, the United States is an order of magnitude higher than it is at Foxconn. Foxconn employs over 1.2 million people, so the number of suicides will a…

As stated, (untreated) depression is the top cause of suicide, followed by other mental illnesses.

What's interesting is that suicide is contagious. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/14/upshot/the-science-behind-...

Edit: The article is relatively weak. There's many more interesting case studies of nations and cultures that went from a near 0 suicide rate to sudden spikes.

Re: The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker: Xu Lizhi (1990-2014)

#22

Post by e40 »

brd wrote: post #13

This is one of those moments where I'm utterly distressed by the lack of a solution to curb all the frivolous consumerism of the world. It's scary to consider how many others are just like Xu and how many more, us included, are only slightly better off.

This is one of those moments where I'm utterly distressed by the lack of a solution to curb all the frivolous consumerism of the world.

I don't think frivolous consumerism is the cause, it's what humans will do to others to get ahead. In other words, greed. The people that run the factories don't view the people as human, otherwise they wouldn't be able to treat them like machines.

Re: The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker: Xu Lizhi (1990-2014)

#23

Post by Lifescape »

CognitiveLens wrote: post #14

Suicide is a tragedy and people should always do what they can to prevent it. However, it is also something that will always occur in some portion of the population, typically as the result of depression. We should not ignore the fact that the suicide rate in, for example, the United States is an order of magnitude higher than it is at Foxconn. Foxconn employs over 1.2 million people, so the number of suicides will a…

Maybe depression can't be 'fixed', but you can learn to understand it and find ways to ignore it. This helped me: http://youtu.be/drv3BP0Fdi8

It's different for everyone so it might not make a difference.

Re: The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker: Xu Lizhi (1990-2014)

#24

Post by brd »

e40 wrote: post #22
brd wrote: post #13

This is one of those moments where I'm utterly distressed by the lack of a solution to curb all the frivolous consumerism of the world. It's scary to consider how many others are just like Xu and how many more, us included, are only slightly better off.

This is one of those moments where I'm utterly distressed by the lack of a solution to curb all the frivolous consumerism of the world. I don't think frivolous consumerism is the cause, it's what humans will do to others to get ahead. In other words, greed. The people that run the factories don't view the people as human, otherwise they wouldn't be able to treat them like machines.

I'm inclined to believe that Foxconn and its ilk exist because there is an insatiable need for the latest and greatest gadgets.

I absolutely agree that greed will always be a major factor in the equation but I can't help but think that our rabid consumerism is the culprit providing the opportunity for the greedy to reign.

Re: The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker: Xu Lizhi (1990-2014)

#26

Post by _xlr2 »

katowulf wrote: post #9
sbarre wrote: post #2

It's hard to remember sometimes that all the people in the world that live lives so much worse than ours still have their own hopes and dreams, their own aspirations and imaginations. This article made me quite sad, despite the great poetry.

I agree in every respect, but also hesitate to say lives "worse" than our own. Different indeed, but I don't have an inkling of how to understand any of the varied Chinese cultures or social classes. Nor can I fully appreciate what would be required to compare the quality of those lives, with such different belief structures and goals. I can only see a beautiful soul snuffed out and wonder why he chose that route. Bu…

The differences between Chinese and Western values matter little in this context. Sure, you could make an argument that their social culture which values hard work would promote these working conditions, but that is irrelevant.

"Worse", despite its subjective meaning, can arguably be used objectively in this case. To be quite frank, Foxconn treats its workers like trash [1]. It's a throwback to the labor rights violations of early industrial America. While you may sit back in your chair and type away that you can't possibly call their lives worse, you nor I would ever want to be caught in an environment like theirs.

There's a huge difference between a culture that values hard work, and one that also knows the respect which its workers deserve.

[1] http://www.facing-finance.org/en/database/cases/working-cond...

Re: The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker: Xu Lizhi (1990-2014)

#27

Post by wavefunction »

yourad_io wrote: post #17
CognitiveLens wrote: post #14

Suicide is a tragedy and people should always do what they can to prevent it. However, it is also something that will always occur in some portion of the population, typically as the result of depression. We should not ignore the fact that the suicide rate in, for example, the United States is an order of magnitude higher than it is at Foxconn. Foxconn employs over 1.2 million people, so the number of suicides will a…

Without claiming any authority on the subject, I would suggest that suicide can be seen as a 'luxury'* in certain cases: Isn't it that much harder to "undo yourself" when you have dependents on you that have no other alternative? If it takes $x units of depression to take your own life while responsibility-free, wouldn't it take 10 * $x to do so while knowing that you're leaving your children to the STATE? * Bad choi…

If you've never been depressed I don't think you can understand what someone in that mind-state might think, and thinking: "my kids would be better off with anyone than me" is the exact sort of thing a suicidally depressed person might say.

Re: The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker: Xu Lizhi (1990-2014)

#28

Post by sroerick »

e40 wrote: post #22
brd wrote: post #13

This is one of those moments where I'm utterly distressed by the lack of a solution to curb all the frivolous consumerism of the world. It's scary to consider how many others are just like Xu and how many more, us included, are only slightly better off.

This is one of those moments where I'm utterly distressed by the lack of a solution to curb all the frivolous consumerism of the world. I don't think frivolous consumerism is the cause, it's what humans will do to others to get ahead. In other words, greed. The people that run the factories don't view the people as human, otherwise they wouldn't be able to treat them like machines.

Do the people who consume the goods perceive the workers as human?

Re: The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker: Xu Lizhi (1990-2014)

#30

Post by sroerick »

CognitiveLens wrote: post #14

Suicide is a tragedy and people should always do what they can to prevent it. However, it is also something that will always occur in some portion of the population, typically as the result of depression. We should not ignore the fact that the suicide rate in, for example, the United States is an order of magnitude higher than it is at Foxconn. Foxconn employs over 1.2 million people, so the number of suicides will a…

The suicide rate in federal prisons is lower than that of the general population as well. Does that mean that the quality of life is higher in federal prisons? Or is it simply that Foxconn employees feel so trapped by their conditions they are deprived of even the ability to take their own life? Perhaps with enough rhetorical gymnastics we can disassociate Xu Lizhi's experience from the electronics in our pockets and our own culpability in the suffering of others. If you wish to discuss the underlying mental health issues than do so. In the meantime I think criticism of Foxconn, Apple, Samsung, and the systemic use of neofeudal labor is perfectly valid.
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