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The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker: Xu Lizhi (1990-2014)

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Re: The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker: Xu Lizhi (1990-2014)

#11

Post by katowulf »

MSM wrote: post #7
simplemath wrote: post #3

Time for another facile PR stunt, Apple! Alternatively, how about sowing 0.01% of your cash back into these workers and demanding that the factory improve working and living conditions?

My understanding is that the only reason these jobs aren't automated already is because labor is cheaper. Unfortunately I think the alternative to a terrible job like working for Foxconn is no job at all for a lot of folks.

And yet, if they made a cheaper iPhone, I'd probably buy it without much thought about how it was made. Oh technology, thy double-edged sword of irony.

Re: The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker: Xu Lizhi (1990-2014)

#12

Post by gohrt »

MSM wrote: post #7
simplemath wrote: post #3

Time for another facile PR stunt, Apple! Alternatively, how about sowing 0.01% of your cash back into these workers and demanding that the factory improve working and living conditions?

My understanding is that the only reason these jobs aren't automated already is because labor is cheaper. Unfortunately I think the alternative to a terrible job like working for Foxconn is no job at all for a lot of folks.

Another alternative is USA companies paying closer to USA minimum wage. If that means more automation instead, that's fine (more efficient production), and the unemployed can use their additional free time to fight their supposedly socialist government to share the wealth.

Re: The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker: Xu Lizhi (1990-2014)

#14

Post by CognitiveLens »

Suicide is a tragedy and people should always do what they can to prevent it. However, it is also something that will always occur in some portion of the population, typically as the result of depression. We should not ignore the fact that the suicide rate in, for example, the United States is an order of magnitude higher than it is at Foxconn. Foxconn employs over 1.2 million people, so the number of suicides will appear high compared with other, smaller companies. Working conditions are tough, the cultural environment is difficult for people with depression (which can be said for almost every culture), and the company could invest more resources to provide help to those in need. But we cannot 'fix' depression, and it's irresponsible to divert attention from the underlying mental health issue to blame the employer for all the employees who have committed suicide.

Re: The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker: Xu Lizhi (1990-2014)

#15

Post by yourad_io »

simplemath wrote: post #3

Time for another facile PR stunt, Apple! Alternatively, how about sowing 0.01% of your cash back into these workers and demanding that the factory improve working and living conditions?

This isn't an Apple thing, it is an Industry thing.

> Major customers of Foxconn include or have included:

Acer Inc. (Taiwan)[49] Amazon.com (United States)[12] Apple Inc. (United States)[50] BlackBerry Ltd. (Canada)[51] Cisco (United States)[52] Dell (United States)[53] Google (United States)[54] Hewlett-Packard (United States)[55] Microsoft (United States)[56] Motorola Mobility (United States)[53] Nintendo (Japan)[57] Nokia (Finland)[50][58] Sony (Japan)[59] Toshiba (Japan)[60] Vizio (United States)[61]

Everyone and their mum. I would expect companies missing from this list to still be using another `instanceof Foxconn`.

But worry not, they're right on top of this problem

> Insiders report that thereafter, although the frequency of suicides decreased (_mainly due to Foxconn's installation of nets making it more difficult for workers to jump from their dormitories_, along with the development of workers' collective resistance), such suicides have continued to the present. (from article)

Wow. How's that for a "FTFY"?

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn#Major_customers

Re: The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker: Xu Lizhi (1990-2014)

#16

Post by saalweachter »

MSM wrote: post #7
simplemath wrote: post #3

Time for another facile PR stunt, Apple! Alternatively, how about sowing 0.01% of your cash back into these workers and demanding that the factory improve working and living conditions?

My understanding is that the only reason these jobs aren't automated already is because labor is cheaper. Unfortunately I think the alternative to a terrible job like working for Foxconn is no job at all for a lot of folks.

There's probably some stickiness and deception in exploitative workplaces. From the outside they may seem better ("Make $X per hour! Guaranteed hours!"), but once you quit your existing job, move away from home, and work at the factory long enough to realize you were happier before, you may have lost the opportunity to go back to your old life -- your job may be gone, the cost of moving may be too high, you may not be able to take the reputation hit for returning home a failure.

But yeah, you are correct. There are many shitty, hazardous, dangerous, health-destroying, depressing jobs paying next to nothing out there, where it is a rational decision for many people to work there, their best option. And if the companies involved had to make the jobs not suck, they'd probably be better off automating away most of the jobs. Or more realistically, moving to a country which was willing to let the shitty jobs persist, because hey, jobs.

But "better than subsistence farming" shouldn't be the bar we're trying to clear in the 21st century.

Re: The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker: Xu Lizhi (1990-2014)

#17

Post by yourad_io »

CognitiveLens wrote: post #14

Suicide is a tragedy and people should always do what they can to prevent it. However, it is also something that will always occur in some portion of the population, typically as the result of depression. We should not ignore the fact that the suicide rate in, for example, the United States is an order of magnitude higher than it is at Foxconn. Foxconn employs over 1.2 million people, so the number of suicides will a…

Without claiming any authority on the subject, I would suggest that suicide can be seen as a 'luxury'* in certain cases:

Isn't it that much harder to "undo yourself" when you have dependents on you that have no other alternative?

If it takes $x units of depression to take your own life while responsibility-free, wouldn't it take 10 * $x to do so while knowing that you're leaving your children to the STATE?

* Bad choice of word considering the context, but I can't find another. I hope you get what I mean.

edit: Can't formatting.

Re: The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker: Xu Lizhi (1990-2014)

#18

Post by dalanmiller »

brd wrote: post #13

This is one of those moments where I'm utterly distressed by the lack of a solution to curb all the frivolous consumerism of the world. It's scary to consider how many others are just like Xu and how many more, us included, are only slightly better off.

This is really where I'm at a loss as of what to do, will the intersection of all human worldly values and ethics ever include sustainably living and shaming or preventing others who don't?

Re: The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker: Xu Lizhi (1990-2014)

#19

Post by frozenport »

katowulf wrote: post #9
sbarre wrote: post #2

It's hard to remember sometimes that all the people in the world that live lives so much worse than ours still have their own hopes and dreams, their own aspirations and imaginations. This article made me quite sad, despite the great poetry.

I agree in every respect, but also hesitate to say lives "worse" than our own. Different indeed, but I don't have an inkling of how to understand any of the varied Chinese cultures or social classes. Nor can I fully appreciate what would be required to compare the quality of those lives, with such different belief structures and goals. I can only see a beautiful soul snuffed out and wonder why he chose that route. Bu…

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