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The new hypervisor LXD

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Re: The new hypervisor LXD

#51

Post by ithkuil »

shykes wrote: post #41
peterwwillis wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have waaaaaaay more marketing than OpenStack. They've probably written and sponsored more PR fluff than code for Docker. And it's easier to deploy.

I agree that Docker is easier to deploy than Openstack :) However... It always astounds me how some people massively over-estimate the size and influence of Docker's marketing... Why yes, of course! The way we got Google, Microsoft, Amazon and IBM to integrate it in their products is by ghost-writing PR fluff. That's also how we got 600 people to contribute 9,000+ pull requests over 18 months [1] [2] [3]. Not bad for…

Yes, and good engineering is also the art of simplicity; we should also respect engineering work by the amount of useless code they didn't write.

Docker resonates well with people because it focuses on aspects of virtualization that people care: development and deployment. It alleviates the need of using complicated configuration management tools by providing layered images, and encourages fine grained containers by supporting first class volume sharing.

The fact that it integrates well with other virtualization stacks is a proof that for a good part it's orthogonal to them.

Re: The new hypervisor LXD

#53

Post by te_chris »

diltonm wrote: post #42
druiid wrote: post #3

Is it me or is Ubuntu kind of like the Sony of server software? It always seems like they are developing concurrent solutions to fit into their model of doing things. Where Sony pushes their own special formats like Memory Stick, Ubuntu pushes Upstart, Juju and now LXD. I think in the end this isn't entirely helpful to the ecosystem as a whole when you have Ubuntu attempting to push their special formats of things wh…

I get your points and see it like this, Red Hat is like Ford. Solid, reliable, sometimes quite innovative. Yet the desktop Linux market slipped right by them for like ... years. One has to wonder what could cause such slippage. Ubuntu is more like Samsung to me than Sony. The innovation is off the chart, not everything hits, a lot doesn't but what it does do is cause others to strive and that is leadership.

Say what you will about Sony these days - and there's much to be said - but there is no way Samsung could create something as brilliant as the PS4. Samsung are successful, but I can't think of anything they innovate and lead in, as far as their consumer side is concerned.

Re: The new hypervisor LXD

#54

Post by reidrac »

cwyers wrote: post #38
Doji wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Upstart predates systemd by 4 years and had made it into a good number of other distros before systemd took over. Apart from upstart, I see your point.

There's a bit more to it than that, though. systemd as an init system was originally conceived as a way to improve Upstart; the reason that systemd decided to go its own way rather than contributing to Upstart is because of Canonical's CLA. That I think is a key point to this discussion -- in order to contribute to an open-source project run by Canonical, they insist upon you giving them more rights to the code you g…

"assigning Canonical the ability to re-license the code outside of the GPL"

I think is more about ownership and IP than re-licensing. Copyright assignment adds value to Canonical as company, eg in case it is acquired.

Re: The new hypervisor LXD

#55

Post by olau »

diltonm wrote: post #42
druiid wrote: post #3

Is it me or is Ubuntu kind of like the Sony of server software? It always seems like they are developing concurrent solutions to fit into their model of doing things. Where Sony pushes their own special formats like Memory Stick, Ubuntu pushes Upstart, Juju and now LXD. I think in the end this isn't entirely helpful to the ecosystem as a whole when you have Ubuntu attempting to push their special formats of things wh…

I get your points and see it like this, Red Hat is like Ford. Solid, reliable, sometimes quite innovative. Yet the desktop Linux market slipped right by them for like ... years. One has to wonder what could cause such slippage. Ubuntu is more like Samsung to me than Sony. The innovation is off the chart, not everything hits, a lot doesn't but what it does do is cause others to strive and that is leadership.

I don't think that's really a fair comment. Red Hat has always focused on the enterprise - home users didn't slip past them, they were never the focus.

The original success of Ubuntu was really incremental improvements - they took Debian as a stable base and improved on the installer and on the defaults, fixing a big bunch of the small obstacles that prevented non-technical people from using the system.

Re: The new hypervisor LXD

#56

Post by vidarh »

nl wrote: post #26
sp332 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Docker, well-established? It may get a lot of press but it's not even two years old. It was just merged into OpenStack about 1 year ago. Edit: You know Docker doesn't use LXC by default anymore, right? It uses a different container library called libcontainer.

And yet oddly for something so young, it's seeing more usage than OpenStack. Of course that may have more to do with the problems within OpenStack, but Docker has it's own attractions too.

OpenStack is just mindbogglingly overcomplicated. They appear try to get you to buy the kitchen sink and a space station when what you want is a sofa.

This could be a marketing problem, but it's the impression OpenStack gives me whenever I look at any of it.

Even "just" individual components like Swift makes me want to bang my head against a wall just from looking at an architecture diagram.

Of course, for large deployment you may end up needing all that complexity. The difference is that with OpenStack you need to figure out what you can disable. With the Docker eco-system, you get to figure out what you need to add as you build. The latter approach is much more friendly.

Re: The new hypervisor LXD

#57

Post by cm-t »

xorcist wrote: post #7

What? My first thought was "cool, Ubuntu backs LXC". My second was "waitaminute, Ubuntu actually wants to compete with Docker?". Docker, as you all know, is a farily well established LXC management solution. They then go on to state that LXC is a "real hypervisor" with live migrations and such. What? Did they take an established Linux household name, with wikipedia article and everything, and name their new semi-rela…

There are technical comments that look (to me) interesting over this post :

http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/2l9lp1/the_next_hype...

Re: The new hypervisor LXD

#58

Post by Rapzid »

sp332 wrote: post #15
xorcist wrote: post #7

What? My first thought was "cool, Ubuntu backs LXC". My second was "waitaminute, Ubuntu actually wants to compete with Docker?". Docker, as you all know, is a farily well established LXC management solution. They then go on to state that LXC is a "real hypervisor" with live migrations and such. What? Did they take an established Linux household name, with wikipedia article and everything, and name their new semi-rela…

Docker, well-established? It may get a lot of press but it's not even two years old. It was just merged into OpenStack about 1 year ago. Edit: You know Docker doesn't use LXC by default anymore, right? It uses a different container library called libcontainer.

LXC is at least two things, the user land tools/libs and the project for the kernel container features right?

Re: The new hypervisor LXD

#59

Post by Rapzid »

To me the most interesting things here are that the kernel(and CPU's) will be getting hardware assisted process isolation as well as advancements being made around CRIU to support live migrating processes(and potentially entire cgroup trees?).

This is good for everyone. Docker doesn't even use liblxc anymore by default, it uses libcontainer. Wonder why Ubuntu isn't getting behind libcontainer.. In any case, the stuff being pushed to upstream projects, like the kernel, will flow back down to docker and everybody can enjoy new awesomeness.

Re: The new hypervisor LXD

#60

Post by josteink »

Rapzid wrote: post #59

To me the most interesting things here are that the kernel(and CPU's) will be getting hardware assisted process isolation as well as advancements being made around CRIU to support live migrating processes(and potentially entire cgroup trees?). This is good for everyone. Docker doesn't even use liblxc anymore by default, it uses libcontainer. Wonder why Ubuntu isn't getting behind libcontainer.. In any case, the stuff…

> Docker doesn't even use liblxc anymore by default, it uses libcontainer. Wonder why Ubuntu isn't getting behind libcontainer.

Because not everyone wants what docker offers. Some people prefer and want the more VM-esque behaviour provided by LXC.

To me LXC is the real deal, while docker offers limited convenience at the cost of flexibility and platform lock-in. And I have zero interest in that.

I hope Ubuntu continues to offer good LXC-support, and then docker (or whatever the other hip thing of the month is) can do whatever docker does, because it's external to whatever distro people is running.

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