The Economics of UberX in NYC • Hacker News Board

Re: The Economics of UberX in NYC

#41

Post by atlbeer » Tue, Nov 04, 2014, 1:48 PM UTC

albertwang wrote: post #17

untog wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would people be more inclined to take an UberX to the airport than a taxi? The taxi has a flat fare. And from the map view I've seen using Uber, UberX's absolutely do hang around in dense Manhattan areas.

I live in Manhattan and I now prefer to take Uber/Lyft to the airport whenever there's no surge pricing. Taxis are _supposed_ to have flat pricing but I've never found that to be the case: given all the bridge/tunnel tolls, baggage fees, and airport taxes, I'm consistently charged anywhere from $80-$120 one-way from Midtown Manhattan to LGA (+tip). In comparison, Uber uses GPS tracking to automatically figure out whi…

You are being taking for a ride, literally. Midtown to LGA is ~$30-$40 before tip. And flat rates are JFK only.

Re: The Economics of UberX in NYC

#42

Post by harryh » Tue, Nov 04, 2014, 2:31 PM UTC

badusername wrote: post #37

harryh wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you look at the spreadsheet he linked to in the footnote where he calculates the cumulative effect of surge pricing? Where would you like to quibble with the math? https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1N4NiwuPLo78w9PaoqXRa...

Daily weighting is made up without any real insight into operations. Furthermore, whatsthefare says that it bases its own approximations on relatively sparse data from user's use of their systems, not realtime monitoring on a service that's probably prone to constant change. I think I mostly find it incorrect to essentially take a pin-hole view at the data through 5-6 averages, and extrapolate it towards a somewhat b…

Even if you drastically change the daily weightings you don't move the overall output very much at all.

As for the other data they describe their collection methodologies, and the numbers they produce are in line with trends that Uber has indicated. You're certainly free to produce a dataset of your own but until you do that this one doesn't seem especially bad or anything.

Re: The Economics of UberX in NYC

#43

Post by wdewind » Tue, Nov 04, 2014, 2:58 PM UTC

maerF0x0 wrote: post #11

wdewind wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet people still choose to drive for Uber. Are they all being taken advantage of?

And yet people work for walmart, are they all being taken advantage of? There is a claim that some positions of power make people unqualified to make choices. Think student/teacher or adult/minor sexual relations or maybe some of the ideas around accredited investors -- non-accredited investors are not allowed to invest in certain types of assets to protect them from predatory practices. I'm not commenting on moralit…

> Think student/teacher or adult/minor sexual relations

You are literally comparing working for Walmart to being raped? That's a bit condescending not only to people working for Walmart but also to rape victims.

Re: The Economics of UberX in NYC

#44

Post by harryh » Tue, Nov 04, 2014, 5:29 PM UTC

wdewind wrote: post #40

harryh wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On one hand, no, of course not. It's a voluntary transaction between adults. There's no taking advantage of someone who comes willingly. I used to think this. But on the other hand, if some people are getting really really rich off the labor of some really poor people than it's gotta make you wonder a bit. And the risk distribution has really got to make you wonder. Uber, being big and diversified could easily take o…

I don't understand. Why do you have to wonder? No offense but there is a lot of hand waving going on in your post, like this: > Uber, being big and diversified could easily take on that risk and insure against it (or really just self insure with their scale) Uber is a marketing channel. Why would they want to take on this risk? Why is it "right" for them to take on this risk? Exactly how easy for them would it be? Ho…

Why do some people have better choices than others in life? In particular for people that only have bad choices do we, as a society, bare some of the responsibility for that? Is it a sign that we've done something wrong?

To be clear, I don't have all the answers to these questions, but they are the questions that I ask myself when issues like this come up.

Re: The Economics of UberX in NYC

#45

Post by wdewind » Tue, Nov 04, 2014, 9:04 PM UTC

harryh wrote: post #44

wdewind wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand. Why do you have to wonder? No offense but there is a lot of hand waving going on in your post, like this: > Uber, being big and diversified could easily take on that risk and insure against it (or really just self insure with their scale) Uber is a marketing channel. Why would they want to take on this risk? Why is it "right" for them to take on this risk? Exactly how easy for them would it be? Ho…

Why do some people have better choices than others in life? In particular for people that only have bad choices do we, as a society, bare some of the responsibility for that? Is it a sign that we've done something wrong? To be clear, I don't have all the answers to these questions, but they are the questions that I ask myself when issues like this come up.

You're making it this big societal argument. I agree that what you are talking about makes sense. It's why we don't allow child labor, for instance.

I'm questioning whether Uber is one of those situations. I don't think you're making it clear that it is, so much as that those situations exist. Which I don't contest.

Re: The Economics of UberX in NYC

#46

Post by harryh » Tue, Nov 04, 2014, 11:02 PM UTC

wdewind wrote: post #45

harryh wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do some people have better choices than others in life? In particular for people that only have bad choices do we, as a society, bare some of the responsibility for that? Is it a sign that we've done something wrong? To be clear, I don't have all the answers to these questions, but they are the questions that I ask myself when issues like this come up.

You're making it this big societal argument. I agree that what you are talking about makes sense. It's why we don't allow child labor, for instance. I'm questioning whether Uber is one of those situations. I don't think you're making it clear that it is, so much as that those situations exist. Which I don't contest.

To what degree do Uber's business practices create (or at least perpetuate) those situations? To what degree are they part of a giant societal machine that creates or perpetuates those situations?

Re: The Economics of UberX in NYC

#47

Post by glenra » Thu, Nov 06, 2014, 9:56 PM UTC

harryh wrote: post #28

pbreit wrote: post #8

This guy's whole article falls apart based on one terrible assumption: that Uberx behaviors are similar to taxis. There are a whole host of reasons why this is not the case. Taxis are more likely to hang out in dense, Manhattan areas contributing to short and slow rides. Riders would much prefer to take an Uberx to the airport than a taxi. Surge pricing. Etc.

How big are these differences? Do you have estimates of some kind? How does that change the bottom line on the math he's done? Without putting numbers to your assertion I'm not sure how valuable it is.

The obvious way to estimate the difference would be to assume Uber isn't actually lying about the average fare/trip length/speed. The "math he's done" involved arbitrarily cutting the average fare in half based on a guess that Uber is lying somehow to juke the stats. My guess would be that they're not and the better numbers they get are merely the result of differences between how people use Uber and how they use cabs.

Re: The Economics of UberX in NYC

#48

Post by travisp » Fri, Nov 07, 2014, 2:46 AM UTC

harryh wrote: post #32

travisp wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flat fare is only from JFK to Manhattan(source: http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/html/passenger/taxicab_rate.shtm... ), not to JFK, or to/from LGA, and not to the other boroughs. UberX also comes to my apartment, while a taxi rarely does, and the drivers are typically more patient with me strapping my son's car seat in (or providing one in the case of Uber Family) and even helpful. As someone who does not live in Manh…

"For trips between (to and from) Manhattan and JFK International Airport, the flat fare is $52.00" TO AND FROM I know reading is hard.

I'm sorry that I missed that phrase. I don't have experience going to/from the one of three NY area airports that has flat taxi fares because I live in Brooklyn, not Manhattan (and Brooklyn applies to the analysis of Uber in NYC). There is definitely no need to be unkind to me about it; I'm sure you've misread something at least once.