Police allow car break-ins to become a Seattle growth industry • Hacker News Board

Re: Police allow car break-ins to become a Seattle growth industry

#151

Post by DanBC » Mon, Nov 03, 2014, 7:23 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #148

DanBC wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tackling stigma is a positive step. I don't know why you don't get that. It is more than just "don't do x". You're just arguing about words. "Don't discriminate against people with a mental illness when recruiting for a job" becomes "give people with a mental illness the same treatment at job interviews". But if you want a bigger list: Reform the broken healthcare model in the US Push for evidence based treatment. Th…

I don't know why you don't get "violent behavior in public is not acceptable". We'll never be satisfied with "its ok to hurt people if you're part of a stigmatized subgroup". Its not ok. Its not going to be ok, and its not stigmatizing to recognize violent offender in public - its reality. They need to be stopped, period.

I haven't said that violence is acceptable. I'm not sure how you could come to that conclusion, so could you point out where I said it?

What I have said is that when you see violence in public you should not assume the perpetrator has a mental illness because they probably don't; and when you see someone with a mental illness you should not think that they are violent, because they probably aren't.

I can understand the downvotes for tone - it's too late to edit so I'm stuck with those.

I can't understand the downvotes for this post https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8548999

Edit: downvoters - please let me know why you're downvoting my later posts.

Re: Police allow car break-ins to become a Seattle growth industry

#152

Post by DanBC » Mon, Nov 03, 2014, 7:30 PM UTC

BadassFractal wrote: post #126

DanBC wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"don't stigmatise people with a mental illness" is the call to action. Stigma prevents people getting help, even for mild MH problems that respond well to talking therapy. Stigma increases social isolation and reduces opportunities for work. We know that both of these make mental illness worse.

Respectfully, I don't see how this is actionable for me as an individual. Ok, I'm not stigmatizing people with mental illness, now what? I still have hundreds, if not more people, with mental illness roaming downtown, living on the streets, regularly leaving feces on sidewalks, screaming at passerbys and expressing what appears violent behavior and nothing is being done about it.

I can't fix your police or healthcare systems, and I do appreciate that it sucks if you have people behaving unpredictably around you. We do need to remember that if they have a mental illness then they're probably not living on the streets out of choice, and that if they had affordable meds and healthcare you would be seeing a lot less people on the street.

What I can do is to ask you to not assume that violent behaviour is a result of a mental health problem; or to not assume that a person with a mental illness is going to be violent. (Apparently I can do that more politely than I have so far.)

Re: Police allow car break-ins to become a Seattle growth industry

#153

Post by DanBC » Mon, Nov 03, 2014, 8:05 PM UTC

Kalium wrote: post #147

DanBC wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tackling stigma is a positive step. I don't know why you don't get that. It is more than just "don't do x". You're just arguing about words. "Don't discriminate against people with a mental illness when recruiting for a job" becomes "give people with a mental illness the same treatment at job interviews". But if you want a bigger list: Reform the broken healthcare model in the US Push for evidence based treatment. Th…

Find me a qualified candidate who can function in my workplace, and there won't be any discrimination issues. That doesn't mean I'm going to tolerate the sort of acting out described above. I can and do regularly work with the mentally ill, but I'm not about to go recruiting amongst the homeless in hopes of finding a skilled software engineer. "Reform the broken model" is a positive, actionable step in the same way t…

I gave context to the suicide rate by linking the page I did which clearly shows the San Francisco has met the target of less than 10 people per 100,000 dying by suicide, with a little green dial.

But suicide is still a significant cause of death, especially for middle aged men, even in San Francisco.

Re: Police allow car break-ins to become a Seattle growth industry

#154

Post by DanBC » Mon, Nov 03, 2014, 8:07 PM UTC

discardorama wrote: post #119

raldi wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would pay for better homeless care and more, higher-quality police officers.

Ah, another of those "let's throw more money at the problem, and maybe that'll fix it" people. Firstly: the City has no shortage of money. The City's budget this year is a whopping $8.6 Billion dollars. For a city of 850,000 people, that's quite a lot. Secondly: the City already spends a lot on homelessness; the direct spending per homeless person exceeds $12,000/year. There are task forces galore on this problem, an…

Just checking but what would you do?

Re: Police allow car break-ins to become a Seattle growth industry

#155

Post by JoeAltmaier » Tue, Nov 04, 2014, 3:34 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #151

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why you don't get "violent behavior in public is not acceptable". We'll never be satisfied with "its ok to hurt people if you're part of a stigmatized subgroup". Its not ok. Its not going to be ok, and its not stigmatizing to recognize violent offender in public - its reality. They need to be stopped, period.

I haven't said that violence is acceptable. I'm not sure how you could come to that conclusion, so could you point out where I said it? What I have said is that when you see violence in public you should not assume the perpetrator has a mental illness because they probably don't; and when you see someone with a mental illness you should not think that they are violent, because they probably aren't. I can understand t…

I got it from a repeated ignoring of the basic issue, and an attempt to redirect the conversation away from the topic. That's pretty close to denial.

And I'd have to disagree - anyone who is acting out in public has certainly got some mental problem, pretty much by definition. Whether its a persistent illness is between them and their doctor. But from the coffee shop's point of view, they gotta be dealt with, period.