Earlier quoted context omitted.
"A small portion of his plunder"? The most charitable interpretation of this phrase is that you're playing a little loose with that possessive pronoun.
I've provided sources of evidence to back this up here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8551072 If you have sources of evidence that can sufficiently contradict my own and show that Gates has been an overall net gain instead of an overall net drain for society, I'd sincerely like to review it.
We Can Eradicate Malaria Within a Generation
81–90 of 108 posts
Re: We Can Eradicate Malaria Within a Generation
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
"A small portion of his plunder"? The most charitable interpretation of this phrase is that you're playing a little loose with that possessive pronoun.
I've provided sources of evidence to back this up here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8551072 If you have sources of evidence that can sufficiently contradict my own and show that Gates has been an overall net gain instead of an overall net drain for society, I'd sincerely like to review it.
Re: We Can Eradicate Malaria Within a Generation
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why not advance medicine in general, moving civilization quicker up the technology curve? Won't more people benefit in the long run? Medicine doesn't advance at an exponential rate, but progress can be made more quickly.
I think what he wants to do is bring the afflicted regions up to par with what one expects from life in the western world, in terms of health. That's very important.
Re: We Can Eradicate Malaria Within a Generation
#84You have to respect the man's dedication. He wanted his OS on every desktop computer and he may have played loose with the rules but he got his wish. Now he wants this terrible disease to be destroyed, and there are a lot of obstacles in his way (and after all, destroying a well entrenched virus is a feat that humanity reached only once before), but still in my heart I feel like I wouldn't bet on the virus on that on…
Why not advance medicine in general, moving civilization quicker up the technology curve? Won't more people benefit in the long run? Medicine doesn't advance at an exponential rate, but progress can be made more quickly.
Or, to put it another way, third world countries are too poor to buy newer medical technology, and relatively few people are financially-interested in making older medical technology cheaper.
Iow, the faster/cheaper options on what to do with semiconductor process improvements.
Additionally in this case, eradication does provide a number of benefits to the global community. Even in countries with top-tier health care systems.
Letting an effective virus / bacteria / micro-organism fester in any human population isn't that different than playing Russian roulette. You may get lucky, but far better to scrub that genetic code off the face of the planet and reset the clock back to the beginning of its evolution.
Re: We Can Eradicate Malaria Within a Generation
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Bill Gates is a living saint. Maybe he just feels he has a lot to give back after what he did in the business world ?
1. Earn shitloads by monopolistically holding back a decade of innovation in the rich west. 2. Give all of it to the poor. If anything, that sounds like Robin Hood to me, more than anything else.
Re: We Can Eradicate Malaria Within a Generation
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why not advance medicine in general, moving civilization quicker up the technology curve? Won't more people benefit in the long run? Medicine doesn't advance at an exponential rate, but progress can be made more quickly.
What I think Gates is rightly targeting with his organization in a broader sense is that no matter how high the technology curve extends on the ceiling side the floor remains unaffected. Or, to put it another way, third world countries are too poor to buy newer medical technology, and relatively few people are financially-interested in making older medical technology cheaper. Iow, the faster/cheaper options on what t…
Also, consider that as technology advances, prices tend to drop. For instance, it cost billions of dollars to sequence the first human genome. It will probably cost $10 in 20 years. Hopefully everyone will be able to get designer drugs.
Few people might be interested in making medical technology cheaper, but some people are trying:
And I saw this on HN: http://www.technologyreview.com/news/532166/with-100-million...
Bill Gates could start a Y Combinator for medical companies.
There are 7 billion people on the planet now. Bringing down the cost is the only way to give everyone first-world health care.
Re: We Can Eradicate Malaria Within a Generation
#87Is his call for donation directed at specific people? I would gladly donate once I am in his position - own a house, have retirement funds etc. Which will probably take me another 30 years.
Are you seriously telling me that your life is so hardscrabble it'll take you 30 years to scrape up a spare hundred bucks or so to toss into the pot.
Re: We Can Eradicate Malaria Within a Generation
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think what he wants to do is bring the afflicted regions up to par with what one expects from life in the western world, in terms of health. That's very important.
Well, the trick there is to create a better economy, right? The standard of living will increase then. What are the most effective ways to prevent malaria is to give people $20 nets.
http://www.againstmalaria.com/DollarsPerNet.aspx
* (plus shipping and handling)
Re: We Can Eradicate Malaria Within a Generation
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've provided sources of evidence to back this up here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8551072 If you have sources of evidence that can sufficiently contradict my own and show that Gates has been an overall net gain instead of an overall net drain for society, I'd sincerely like to review it.
No you wouldn't, and it is completely obvious. If you are willing to spend enough time to google Big Lists as big as yours, you are bound to come across counter-evidence on your own. That you are asking someone else to waste as much time as you have is sufficient proof that you are looking to silence, not evaluate.
That's a very good point and I'm happy you brought it up. Although, I wish you'd been a bit more polite didn't assume bad faith with me in the process.
I've been in the process of providing a more "human-readable" (so to speak) breakdown of both the positives of his business practices, charity, etc. versus the negatives. I don't know if you've ever researched something of this scale before or not, but it takes quite a bit of time to vet sources properly and break it all down into a fair manner with methodologies that others can easily understand, relate to and, indeed, find to be a fair comparison/assessment (overall).
Despite working on this with six other people (granted, all off-and-on in our spare time since, unlike Public Relations, we aren't paid to do this), it's taken well over a year so far. Ughh..
In the meantime, I've provided sources of evidence to the public that should at the very least provoke more people to question the narrative that Gates is simply a net gain for society via his philanthropy and gains for society he created via his role at Microsoft, etc. If Gates is a Robin Hood that stole from the rich to provide for the poor, I've yet to see much data that resembles that scenario.
So far, I have measured more counter-evidence that positively reflects Bill Gates' actions than the negative evidence I've gathered (for one, it's very easy to find positives on Gates & MS). Incredibly easy... However, I've found it lacking once one considers all the costs that his monopolistic, anti-competitive behavior at this huge of a scale extolled upon society en masse along with Gates' personal hoarding of assets/money to climb towards his billionaire status to boot.
Of course, it's also complicated by the fact that Gates' assets have provided both good and bad for society as well, so it's quite complex.
But, again, if you've got some evidence that shows that Gates is an overall net gain for society after I've provided all this evidence to the contrary and I'm wrong on this, I'd like you to provide it. I'd like to review it and add it to the pile if it's not there already. Who know, perhaps you have a much better perspective I or the six others haven't yet considered.
For example, I'd like to see a better comparative analysis than what we have so far of all the jobs Microsoft destroyed versus ones they enabled internally and externally. Love to compare methodologies on that as well with more people.
Anyway, otherwise, I suppose you can just assume bad faith on my part instead of forming an argument based upon your own sources of evidence, etc.
>That you are asking someone else to waste as much time as you
That's hostile. How about you put some of that energy to good use and challenge my sources of evidence instead?
>sufficient proof that you are looking to silence, not evaluate.
I'm not looking to silence anyone at all. I very much welcome more data whether it adds to the positive gain or negative drain.
But, anyway, if that's all the "proof" you need to pre-judge my intentions, then I'm afraid we don't require the same levels of evidence to support our own suppositions in the first place, perhaps.
tl;dr - I'm still working on this with others. I'd like to see a better comparative analysis than what we have so far, so if anyone can think of some data that seriously challenges the negatives, I'd enjoy gathering it. I should also note I hope to have a final, comprehensive report completed, edited and ready for heavy rotation by Spring or earlier if we have the time and/or can get more people involved in the process. But, so far, I haven't seen anywhere near a net gain for society by Bill Gate's actions and I hope in the end we can all learn that at the very least, there's a better way to garner a successful business than hurting so many others in the process.
Re: We Can Eradicate Malaria Within a Generation
#90Is there any way to eradicate mosquitoes completely? Are they useful for anything? They're just a huge nuisance and carriers of disease, why haven't we managed to get rid of them by now? We're apparently pretty great at making species go extinct, just not the ones we want.
Maybe those animals could find something else to eat, but there sure are a lot of mosquitoes - imagine how many get eaten.