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The Semantic Web Is Dead. Long Live the Semantic Web

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Re: The Semantic Web Is Dead. Long Live the Semantic Web

#11
post #10
post #4

The approach currently used is in its death throes, to be sure. But a working Semantic Web is a huge deal (think: bigger than Google) and will happen, make no mistake. But when it happens, it will be via a different approach. Edit: spelling (thx Joshua)

We are on the cusp of solving natural language understanding, which will enable natural language for humans and relational databases for computers. There will be no "Semantic Web", there will the "Web" and the machines that read it just as well as humans.

Natural language understanding is typically regarded as AI-complete, and once we have that, semantic web will be the least interesting bit of new technology.

Re: The Semantic Web Is Dead. Long Live the Semantic Web

#12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry about that, restarted it :) I should probably upgrade that small DigitalOcean instance.

I reposted it here while I'm upgrading the instance: https://medium.com/@dennybritz/the-semantic-web-is-dead-long...

Alright, should be back up again. With a bit more memory and swap space this time :D

Re: The Semantic Web Is Dead. Long Live the Semantic Web

#13
post #10
post #4

The approach currently used is in its death throes, to be sure. But a working Semantic Web is a huge deal (think: bigger than Google) and will happen, make no mistake. But when it happens, it will be via a different approach. Edit: spelling (thx Joshua)

We are on the cusp of solving natural language understanding, which will enable natural language for humans and relational databases for computers. There will be no "Semantic Web", there will the "Web" and the machines that read it just as well as humans.

Except that sadly, the only machines that will read it will have to be centralised in the hands of cloud providers in order to provide the funding and power needed to run them.

One of the great things about the semantic web, to me, was always that you could process it on a cheap VPS or your own desktop, creating new systems with little or no knowledge of math or machine learning. (I know projects that do this today.) That's not going to happen for a long time with natural language processing.

Re: The Semantic Web Is Dead. Long Live the Semantic Web

#14
When I got exposed to semantic web probably 4 years ago, I realized what a huge mistake it was/is.

My take is that it is a bunch of ideas to make it easier for search engines to crawl and use your data about all kinds of things. On one hand, that is great.

However, the huge problem with using it is that you end up creating your own search engine to crawl data sources to do anything useful. That is to say, you have to crawl the data, store it somewhere, and then build up your own systems for querying or doing anything useful with the data.

The use case many people have is that they want to use and API to get some particular bit of data out and that's it. Like, say you want to do a search for a list of tweets on Twitter with the hashtag #HackerNews. The sane thing to do is to be able to hit a twitter api endpoint and have it send you back a list of tweets with that hash tag.

Now, imagine if instead you had to index all of twitter and filter yourself for tweets with #HackerNews in it. Is that better for that particular use case? No, it sucks.

There are certainly cases where you DO want to crawl data and do your own data analysis on it. But, that is a much more limited use case for many developers and there isn't as much value in that as people seem to believe.

A better solution would be something like REST with HATEOS on a much larger scale. You'd be able to index things nicely, but still have the benefits of smarter API calls.

Unfortunately, I don't see this happening anytime soon, despite the interesting things you could build with it.

Re: The Semantic Web Is Dead. Long Live the Semantic Web

#15
post #10
post #4

The approach currently used is in its death throes, to be sure. But a working Semantic Web is a huge deal (think: bigger than Google) and will happen, make no mistake. But when it happens, it will be via a different approach. Edit: spelling (thx Joshua)

We are on the cusp of solving natural language understanding, which will enable natural language for humans and relational databases for computers. There will be no "Semantic Web", there will the "Web" and the machines that read it just as well as humans.

>>We are on the cusp of solving natural language understanding

Why do you think this? Is it just a feel or is there some company that is really close. As another user mentioned in this thread natural language understanding seems to be the same thing as solving strong AI. Solving strong AI is a huge deal. So big that the people in control of it will probably become the most powerful people in the world.

Re: The Semantic Web Is Dead. Long Live the Semantic Web

#16
> The Semantic Web means different things to different people.

There is no better way of expressing why "the semantic web" as it was originally conceived failed, and will always fail. This is not to say that automated processing to extract higher-level information of the kind the article argues for might not be both helpful and possible, but it will always be awkward, difficult and imperfect. The awkwardness and difficulty will go down as AI gets better, but the imperfection has a fairly high minimum level because the kind of meaning humans extract from language varies enormously between individuals.

As a friend who works in geology put it: "If I send a bunch of geologists out to survey an area and combine their data naively, I can tell who mapped where but not what anybody mapped." The illusion of shared meaning is powerful, and with enormous effort we can get communities of shared meaning that are large and powerful enough to be extremely useful, but we do that either through top-down control (politics, corporations, militaries) or intense bottom-up interaction (the sciences), not the kind of loose, informal, disconnected mechanisms that the Web enables.

Re: The Semantic Web Is Dead. Long Live the Semantic Web

#17
post #10
post #4

The approach currently used is in its death throes, to be sure. But a working Semantic Web is a huge deal (think: bigger than Google) and will happen, make no mistake. But when it happens, it will be via a different approach. Edit: spelling (thx Joshua)

We are on the cusp of solving natural language understanding, which will enable natural language for humans and relational databases for computers. There will be no "Semantic Web", there will the "Web" and the machines that read it just as well as humans.

I think we are still very far away from NLU. There are a couple of tiny subproblems such as Entity Extraction, Relation Extraction and Dependency Parsing that we have become pretty good at (for English that is, but for many languages even that is still difficult). However, once you get into pragmatics and contextual understanding we still have no clue. And in order to enable real NLU you'd also need to ability to do reasoning on top of other knowledge (and "common sense"), which is a whole different problem.

Based on products like Siri or Cortana it may seem like we are coming closer to NLU, but the reason those are working at all is because they are very topic-specific and tiny subproblems of what NLU is really about.

Re: The Semantic Web Is Dead. Long Live the Semantic Web

#18
post #10
post #4

The approach currently used is in its death throes, to be sure. But a working Semantic Web is a huge deal (think: bigger than Google) and will happen, make no mistake. But when it happens, it will be via a different approach. Edit: spelling (thx Joshua)

We are on the cusp of solving natural language understanding, which will enable natural language for humans and relational databases for computers. There will be no "Semantic Web", there will the "Web" and the machines that read it just as well as humans.

> We are on the cusp of solving natural language understanding

I'd love to find out more about what you have in mind here. Can you elaborate?

Re: The Semantic Web Is Dead. Long Live the Semantic Web

#19
The semantic web as I understood it was just using the right HTML tags. Most importantly, no tables for layout and using semantic names for CSS classes rather than names like "blue". This has completely failed, imo. Tables are no longer constructed with , and but with a combination of and tags with classes that are not semantic at all :(

Edit: Not sure why this got downvoted, just trying to illustrate what I thought the term meant.

Re: The Semantic Web Is Dead. Long Live the Semantic Web

#20
post #4

The approach currently used is in its death throes, to be sure. But a working Semantic Web is a huge deal (think: bigger than Google) and will happen, make no mistake. But when it happens, it will be via a different approach. Edit: spelling (thx Joshua)

The Semantic Web is about the semantics of schema, not the actual semantics of the data.

THIS is why it failed: you guessed what the thing was from the name instead of actually learning about it.

Also: "death throes"

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