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Just had a heart attack

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Re: Just had a heart attack

#171

Post by lotsofmangos »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #141
pdabbadabba wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is an exagerration to say that the situation you described was typical (though "too common" might fit). You implied that you could not obtain treatment if you cannot afford it. And now you're adding the largely fictional risk of losing your home into the mix. Yes, it is possible to lose your home in bankruptcy but only if the equity in your home exceeds your state's homestead exemption (often, but not always, $50,…

The important thing to note here is that the scaremongering is precisely what contributes to more deaths. If you're marching around saying lives will be ruined if you seek treatment , then YOU, not some other person, are the problem. Think carefully if the point you imagine you're making is worth that.

If you're marching around saying lives will be ruined if you seek treatment

But lives are often ruined when people seek treatment, given that medical bills are the largest single cause of personal bankruptcy in the US. I don't think people get scared of seeking treatment because of the number of people pointing this out, as much as they get scared because of the number of bankruptcies.

Re: Just had a heart attack

#172

Post by JoeAltmaier »

selmnoo wrote: post #165
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, run out of money - steal? That's hardly moral. Its part of the entitled "I'm so sad I got into this hole, and somebody should let me out" culture.

> So, run out of money - steal? Pretty much. Though, compared with how corporations are fucking over little people left and right, it's hardly unwarranted. This is not an unfamiliar story. There are people who did everything right, were kind and philanthropic their entire life, more than they should have been probably, but they find their whole lives suddenly ruined with just one accident. There are supposed to be ce…

Straw man. This dude was suggesting dumping your student loans. I can guess that there are good reasons for that, but I didn't hear any.

Re: Just had a heart attack

#173

Post by tonyplee »

robbiep wrote: post #84
srcmap wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon has some home ECG monitor device. Do you recommend their use? I execise regularly. If those device are effective, I would love to use them weekly or monthly on myself and collect the data long term for me and possibly my doctor.

the technology is very simple and very old so without knowing what sort of machines they are (if they are like [1] then they are more for monitoring abberant rhythms than detecting infarcts or ischaemia - it doesn't have enough leads to properly detect a heart attack) they may do an ok job; the real question is of benefit. There is little benefit to be obtained from regular ECG in an otherwise healthy person. You can…

Let's say if we can get (build) a proper 12 lead ECG with proper home/protable monitor.

Is there such thing already?

Collect all 12 leads signal via bluetooth connection to a Iphone/Mobile device.

Whenever I do a 30,60 minutes exercise in the GYM, the system will collect all the data and store them in my personal cloud.

Whenever I did annual checkout with my PCP, I will go over the data/chart with him/her and see if there are any abnormalities that might trigger any concerns.

If they spot any potential issue, than we have more info to do proper stress tests in the hospital and lab setting.

Would this kind of device/process be valuable from your ( Doctor's ) point of view?

BTW, I have background in embedded system, cloud backend, and some mobile app, if any doctors think these kind of monitoring devices are useful. I can definitively love partner up working on such project. My mom suffered from heart attack a few years back - so this topic trigger a personal nerve for me.

Re: Just had a heart attack

#174

Post by waterlesscloud »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #159
waterlesscloud wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The important thing to note here is that the scaremongering is precisely what contributes to more deaths. If you're marching around saying lives will be ruined if you seek treatment , then YOU, not some other person, are the problem. Think carefully if the point you imagine you're making is worth that.

Right. I'm "scaremongering" by explaining the situation faced by many middle class families in the US on a forum for programmers, and I'm personally contributing to more deaths, not the poor healthcare system. Okay. While it's true you may not lose your house (which I clearly articulated in my previous comment), there's more to life than a house. If you can't drive to work because you no longer have a car, then that'…

Yes. You're scaremongering. You're (by your own admission) using an extreme situation to make a point.

If you choose to emphasize this extreme situation, as you did, then yes, you own some personal responsibility.

If you don't like that, then don't use extreme cases to make whatever point you want to make.

Re: Just had a heart attack

#175

Post by lotsofmangos »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #152
selmnoo wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The two people should just leave the United States, start a life elsewhere. Argentina, Germany, Thailand, whatever. I suggest the same thing to folks with unmanageable student loan debts with no clear answer in sight. I think it's unfair for society to have burdened such debts on people who didn't know any better, who weren't equipped with the resources or the knowledge to make the right decisions. What do you do? Be…

So, run out of money - steal? That's hardly moral. Its part of the entitled "I'm so sad I got into this hole, and somebody should let me out" culture.

The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread. - Anatole France

Re: Just had a heart attack

#176

Post by pdabbadabba »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #159
waterlesscloud wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The important thing to note here is that the scaremongering is precisely what contributes to more deaths. If you're marching around saying lives will be ruined if you seek treatment , then YOU, not some other person, are the problem. Think carefully if the point you imagine you're making is worth that.

Right. I'm "scaremongering" by explaining the situation faced by many middle class families in the US on a forum for programmers, and I'm personally contributing to more deaths, not the poor healthcare system. Okay. While it's true you may not lose your house (which I clearly articulated in my previous comment), there's more to life than a house. If you can't drive to work because you no longer have a car, then that'…

I am similarly perplexed about why this argument is dragging on. This position:

> People make suboptimal decisions, especially when the choices don't have clear outcomes.

Is nuanced and, I think, correct. But your original comment didn't clearly say this (though now that I know your actual position, I'm able to read back and see what you meant). It sounded like you were saying -- like many other people -- that if you don't have insurance in the U.S. you can't get treatment, so you die.

Distinguishing between the two is important because to the extent that the latter view is perpetuated, it is a major reason why people "make suboptimal decisions."

I suspect that you and I have the same views about healthcare in America. I'm simply trying to get you to tighten up your somewhat loose talk about it. Things are bad, but you seem hell bent on making things sound even worse than they are. This impulse itself is harmful for precisely the reason that I and waterlesscloud have now both pointed out to you.

Case in point: did you know that there is also an automobile exemption in Chapter 7 bankruptcy that works similarly to the homestead exemption?

Re: Just had a heart attack

#178

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

StefanPopp wrote: post #55

Last year when i was 27 i had a strange feeling in my chest after smoking a cigarette, i didn't smoke for 4 years in row. After 2 minutes i got very nervous and i felt overall very strange. Two days later i smoked another cigarette and the same feeling started again, but this time it felt like ants are running up my neck. After 5 minutes and calming down me teeth started to itch. From day to day i got more and more w…

For the first time they found troponin in my blood

Probably a selfish, personal comment, but I immediately searched for the word "troponin" in this thread and smiled to see it in the second post.

As an engineer having spent the last decade or so on an instrument that, among other analytes, measures the level of troponin in your blood (serum), it's quite satisfying to remember that my work is saving lives. Sure, you may not have been analyzed by one of our instruments, but somewhere a group of software, electrical, mechanical and biomedical engineers out there suffered through the miasma of FDA-required procedures, onerous development process, reviewing every line of code, arguments about exactly what a STAT reponse means, ridiculous training requirements, long validation procedures run by the most anal testers ever and ended up with an instrument that helped save your life.

It might not be as exciting as state of the art webapps, but it's nice to be reminded that we matter.

Re: Just had a heart attack

#179

Post by pdabbadabba »

damon_c wrote: post #163
pdabbadabba wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an exaggeration, and it's an unfortunate one, since it distracts from the truth of what you're saying. As many have pointed out, a person who chose to be taken to the hospital would be taken to the hospital and treated whether they could pay for it or not. The result of this would be a serious amount of debt, but likely could be paid down with a monthly payment. The worst case scenario is bankruptcy, which su…

You are wrong. I have actually had a doctor check something and then ask which health insurance I had before recomending a follow up examination (which actually revealed something serious). If I had had lesser insurance and he had left me with a "it's probably fine", I might indeed be dead now as with the op.

You're conflating two different things: the inclusion of price as a factor in medical decision-making, and hospitals' refusing to provide needed care to people who cannot pay.

The former, I agree, is a real problem (as I have now said repeatedly). The latter is generally a myth perpetuated by irresponsible people who want to score cheap points in the healthcare policy debate.

Re: Just had a heart attack

#180

Post by pjlegato »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #88

You're quite lucky that you could afford that hospital trip. In the US, it would typically go like "My doctor made some tests and he said that it doesn't look like a heart attack but something is wrong with one of the lines on my ECG. He asked me if its ok to call the ambulance for doing more checks at the hospital. I said no, I can't afford that. So I died four weeks later." This isn't an exaggeration. Many people l…

About 16%[1][2] of Americans don't have health insurance. While the situation you describe is tragic and too common, it is a gross exaggeration to say it's "typical." Someone unfamiliar with the United States would read what you wrote and assume that this is the usual situation, when in fact it is relatively rare.

Should something be done to help that 16%? Yes, of course. Is it common? No.

[1] http://www.gallup.com/poll/168248/uninsured-rate-lowest-2008... [2] http://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publication...

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