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Capitalism Has Gone Off the Rails

spiegel.de

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Re: Capitalism Has Gone Off the Rails

#121

Post by spindritf »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #94
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What, precisely, do you believe poor Americans are suffering from? Well, just for starters, they're suffering from entirely treatable diseases and injuries because they don't have health insurance, or don't have non-shitty health insurance. Quite a few of of them are suffering from childhood malnutrition, leading to lifelong cognitive and developmental defects. On the lowest rung, they are suffering from homelessne…

Well, just for starters, they're suffering from entirely treatable diseases and injuries... If that were the case, the increasing access to health care should make them healthier. It didn't. http://www.nber.org/oregon/ Do you have evidence for childhood malnutrition? Once you come up with a definition of "rotting, roach-infested", feel free to check what fraction of poor Americans actually fit that definition. See ta…

It is sad that completely factual, sourced and on-topic comments get downvoted on HN just because they go against the political beliefs of downvoters who don't even bother responding.

Re: Capitalism Has Gone Off the Rails

#122

Post by amirouche »

zanny wrote: post #76
radmuzom wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok. But thinking aloud here, when and how does exchange rate come into play? The only reason I have been lifted out of poverty living in India is because of "Western" consumers - I do work for which my employer gets paid in dollars, and they give me a fraction which is enough for me to lead an upper middle class lifestyle in India. No Indian company will pay, or has the ability to pay, as much money as I am getting n…

The hope is that the temporary wealth transfer until you reach equilibrium can fuel your own countries growth to the point where it can self perpetuate the cycle with its own infrastructure. IE, you built factories and call centers and all manner of things to service western tastes, and even when the western money dries up by then you should have enough in your own little money cycle plus the infrastructure to produc…

> that effect will spread wealth in the local area assuming locals can buy

That's the problem you can't be sure once there is no more "western jobs" that they will remain enough money in the country. You are just assuming without proof. The exact thing neocon have been doing for years.

Re: Capitalism Has Gone Off the Rails

#123

Post by brc »

adventured wrote: post #32
radmuzom wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great comment. The standard argument given by capitalists is that the "pie" will keep on growing, so while the existing owners of capital will get richer, it will also lift others out of poverty. Why is this not happening any more? Is it because earlier automation used to create "new" jobs which require labour, while now automation is removing the need for labour at all?

It's because the US is no longer a Capitalist nation; as such it no longer derives the maximum benefits of Capitalism. It was a mixed economy 30 or 40 years ago. Today it's a welfare state that depends on its central bank to remain solvent, with hyper regulation, high levels of debt, and high levels of taxation. The number of economic regulations and general laws passed each year in the US is truly astounding, and li…

Capitalism still works fine, because it's not a designed system, it's not a central plan.

In fact, countries like the USA should give it a try again. It worked quite well for them last time.

Re: Capitalism Has Gone Off the Rails

#124

Post by dalek_cannes »

A damning indictment from Stockman's The Great Deformation (referenced in the article):

  The paper trail uncovered by congressional investigators shows that the
  $400 billion (notational value) of busted CDS insurance issued by the AIG
  holding company was held by a very small number of the world’s largest fi-
  nancial institutions, and virtually none of it was held by the banks of Main
  Street America which were allegedly being shielded from AIG’s imminent
  collapse. Moreover, the worst-case loss faced by the dozen or so giant in-
  stitutions actually exposed to an AIG bankruptcy would have amounted to
  no more than a few months’ bonus accrual.

Re: Capitalism Has Gone Off the Rails

#125

Post by waterlesscloud »

jacquesm wrote: post #65
vixen99 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But I doubt there will be a useful discussion of it here.". I suggest your uncalled-for sneer implies you won't be reading what you want to read.

You're proving his point for him.

I didn't read it either because of that line. Sorry, it was counterproductive of them to say that.

Re: Capitalism Has Gone Off the Rails

#127

Post by brc »

dontmindifido wrote: post #18
maratd wrote: post #2

It's not capitalism that's gone off the rails ... it's socialism. All of the countries with slow growth and growing inequality have heavy-handed socialist policies in place.

That is a really poor argument and can be debunked with some simple thought modeling. Imagine a system where returns on capital are higher than labor, and there are a relatively small number of people with large amounts of capital and no 'socialist' policies in place to attempt to interrupt the capital flow. After a period of time, assuming everyone is working and investing if they have capital to spare, would the in…

Like most socialist theorists, you left out entrepreneurs.

Re: Capitalism Has Gone Off the Rails

#128

Post by netcan »

The current climate is interesting. I think it's no coincidence that we are about one generation since soviet communism failed as a political movement and it became obvious that other leftist economies would either reform or be overthrown.

In any case, the current debate will perhaps be fruitful. Wealth disparity. Acceleration of Automation. Jobs evolving so fast that the paradigm of eduction-qualification-work is getting very clumsy. A resurgence of the old leftist idea that wealth distribution is inevitably political, mores than nationalism, religion or anything else.

It's all interesting.

Personally, I think the major force at play in our time is technology. Fraking for all its controversial implications has already lowered energy prices. Perhaps all the research and motivation to develop other energy sources will give us the awaited revolutionary 10X increase in energy availability. Computing continues to generate wealth and promises of more wealth.

The communication mediums open between most people on earth are developing at a blistering pace. The effects of cultural globalization may dwarf those of economic globalization.

It's not surprising that we have an appetite fro radical thought.

Re: Capitalism Has Gone Off the Rails

#129

Post by seanmcdirmid »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #50
psychometry wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A third of the population in the richest nation on earth lives in poverty. According to you, that's not a problem because even poorer people in Bangladesh are slightly less poor than they would be if American companies had never employed them. What kind of callous person could look around at all the suffering and think this system's working great? Or do you not look around at all, holed up in a tacky mansion of your…

95% of the biggest nation in the world (or maybe second biggest, no one really knows the exact pop of India and China) lives in far deeper poverty than poor americans. Many of them experience actual suffering - not enough food, no flush toilet, no power. What, precisely, do you believe poor Americans are suffering from? The only concrete answer I usually hear is envy (I.e. "oh noes the inequality"). http://economix.b…

95% for china and India?

China is already a middle income country, India is a high lower income country. if you want poor, look at Africa.

Re: Capitalism Has Gone Off the Rails

#130

Post by seanmcdirmid »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #91
zanny wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is tremendous long run psychological and physical harm associated with living paycheck to paycheck in perpetual debt having to eat subpar foodstuffs because fruits and vegetables cost way more than dollar menu cheeseburgers per calorie. And if you don't have a working kitchen you can't cook farmers market produce. And that is at best. A lot of us are unemployed, and families are collapsing in on themselves as y…

There is tremendous long run psychological and physical harm associated with living paycheck to paycheck This is entirely in the control of most poor Americans. India's GDP/capita is $5500 after adjusting for cost of living, yet India has a 20% savings rate. Poor Americans could reduce consumption and save if they wished. in perpetual debt having to eat subpar foodstuffs because fruits and vegetables cost way more th…

I can't tell if you are trolling or are serious. Anyways, I'll leave is here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05...

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