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Tim Cook Speaks Up

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Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#981
post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first I didn't like the news. Tim Cook is gay, so what? I though 5 seconds about it and then I realized how actually we still need this... we still need to remind people that there's nothing wrong with being gay. That's sad that we are still at this point.

While I agree it's a positive thing for him to talk about, I don't care much for the way he's phrasing it. What does it mean to be "proud" of something you are ? Isn't that what we criticize white supremacists and other bigots for? Take pride in the things you do, the things you create. My only reaction to someone who takes pride in his or her race, gender, religion, or sexual orientation is quizzical indifference.

The issue here is that people use it in two ways:

1. As a signal that you embrace your own identity, and are not ashamed of what you are, despite societal prejudice.

2. As a signal that you see yourself as superior.

Most of the time when you hear someone say they are proud to be gay, or black, or otherwise proud to be member of some other minority group, it is 1 they mean. Sometimes it is 2, but it is fairly rare.

Most of the time when you hear someone say they are proud to be white, it means they are white supremacists using it in form 2.

While it is certainly possible for members of majority groups to use it in meaning 1, it is incredibly rare, because it makes little sense: The point of using it in that form is to counteract prejudice. Pretty much the only members of majority groups that consider it necessary to counteract prejudice are racists that are paranoid that they are being pushed aside.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#982

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems fairly obvious that "pride" simply isn't appropriate in either case. It only serves to cloud the issue with entitlement and expectations of privilege based on nothing in particular.

It seems fairly obvious? Your seems-obvious meter went off when you ran it over the screen? Own your opinions. Cloaking them in false objectivity makes you look ridiculous and removes the opportunity for discussion. You think it's obvious. I don't. I do think it's obvious that you're playing the game on easy [1], though, which is why your seems-obvious meter is poorly calibrated. [1] http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/0…

Ah, yes, stereotyping. It's OK When We Do It, right?

Here's an idea: I'll use whatever words I want, and so will you, and we won't even ask about each others' race or gender. Because it just shouldn't matter.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#983
post #830

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>girl cant even do anything of her choice.. In India we have messed up things so badly we have scared away a lot of people from having girl kids. I'm not talking about female infanticide and foeticide(This kind of things do happen, even now). But, These days those couples who have the morality of not committing such inhumane acts don't even bother to have a second kid if the first kid is a girl. While I see couples…

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point, but the practice that you describe wouldn't result in an imbalance in the ratio of men to women.

Yes. This is a tech interview question at some companies.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#984

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems fairly obvious? Your seems-obvious meter went off when you ran it over the screen? Own your opinions. Cloaking them in false objectivity makes you look ridiculous and removes the opportunity for discussion. You think it's obvious. I don't. I do think it's obvious that you're playing the game on easy [1], though, which is why your seems-obvious meter is poorly calibrated. [1] http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/0…

Ah, yes, stereotyping. It's OK When We Do It, right? Here's an idea: I'll use whatever words I want, and so will you, and we won't even ask about each others' race or gender. Because it just shouldn't matter.

It shouldn't matter, but it does. People without experience of marginalization are frequently unsympathetic to those who are. And people who are privileged often act in ways that maintain that privilege, even when they claim their conscious motives are unrelated.

Experience shapes ideas. Ideas are tested through experience. If you refuse to examine the things that shape your experience, some of your ideas will inevitably be poor.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#985

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, yes, stereotyping. It's OK When We Do It, right? Here's an idea: I'll use whatever words I want, and so will you, and we won't even ask about each others' race or gender. Because it just shouldn't matter.

It shouldn't matter, but it does. People without experience of marginalization are frequently unsympathetic to those who are. And people who are privileged often act in ways that maintain that privilege, even when they claim their conscious motives are unrelated. Experience shapes ideas. Ideas are tested through experience. If you refuse to examine the things that shape your experience, some of your ideas will inevit…

Experience shapes ideas. Ideas are tested through experience. If you refuse to examine the things that shape your experience, some of your ideas will inevitably be poor.

Any racist will, of course, tell me exactly the same thing.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#986
post #860
post #830

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>girl cant even do anything of her choice.. In India we have messed up things so badly we have scared away a lot of people from having girl kids. I'm not talking about female infanticide and foeticide(This kind of things do happen, even now). But, These days those couples who have the morality of not committing such inhumane acts don't even bother to have a second kid if the first kid is a girl. While I see couples…

Think of this analogy: every person in the world flips a fair coin. Those who flip tail, stop flipping coins. Those who flip head, flip one more time, and so on. In expectation, the overall number of heads and tails will be the same - if you look at the system from the outside, it's just a bunch of independent flips with fair coins, the decisions of the participants have no effect.

Yes, but you are making a big assumption that it will be a fair coin.

In the real world. There are other factors that contribute to gender imbalance(Infanticide, foeticide, mortality etc). Plus also note that once the gender balance goes out of balance it continues get worse with every iteration.

So this basically works like algorithm which is continually trying to increase the count of M's above F's.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#987
post #963
post #951

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The specific generalization was being used to show people how it feels when it is used against them. Personally I dont have a black and white view of the world. Consider the California textbooks which paint Hinduism as worst savages. There is not even passing mention that the cool things like Yoga and Meditation are Hindu practices on the contrary outright false stories which I believe were put in my missionaries are…

I am in complete agreement with the views you have expressed about the state of affairs of Indian legal system and the practices and have upvoted your comments. However, when you say that the textbooks paint Hinduism as worst savages, I have to call out that hyperbole. That is a ridiculous exaggeration. In fact I am in complete agreement with the following characterization, quoted from the wikipedai page you linked t…

Yes Thanks. The worse part is that the right wing politics in India has never invested much into intellectual efforts to highlight these important aspects of Hinduism. Instead they have resorted to sloganeering.

Only handful of people like Dr. Arun Shourie, Sitaram Goel, Ram Swarup and Rajiv Malhotra now a days seem to have put some efforts.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#988
post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While what you say is true, for the benefit of the readers not very familiar with India I would like to add a few things for context. If from the name of the politician linked by the parent comment you come to the conclusion that homosexuality is frowned upon only by muslim politicians, you couldnt be more wrong. India is an incredibly high variance country. In some metros you would find gay pubs and bars, open kissi…

> In metros you would find gay pubs and bars, open kissing on the streets among gay partners with no one bothered a bit I really doubt this. Kissing in public is highly frowned upon for heterosexuals only and there will be a shitstorm if gay couple found openly kissing. Take this incident, happened in September 2014 in Mumbai/Bombay, two couples were harassed by police just because they hugged publicly[0]. Police har…

I am currently in united states and this is how I will report about US in Indian newspapers.

"United States police is the most brutal police force which is racist and always uses excessive force. Black teenagers are shot for merely being a suspect of stealing candies from store. It is not uncommon for SWAT forces to break into home of innocents and shoot their dogs for no reason what so ever."

The BBC or Mid-Day type publications print whatever someone else is feeding them.

Re: Tim Cook Speaks Up

#989

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About 50% of people self-identify as female. Why are there only 26 female CEOs in the 500?

Women are 97 percent of preschool and kindergarten teachers, 80 percent of social workers, 82 percent of librarians and 92 percent of dietitians and nutritionists and registered nurses. Is that a problem too?

> Women are 97 percent of preschool and kindergarten teachers

In my country this ratio is slightly better: 88-12

And it is widely seen as a serious problem.

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