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The Future of Payments and Open Source Support

lucumr.pocoo.org

21–30 of 80 posts

Re: The Future of Payments and Open Source Support

#21
I envy this guy for living in a country where you can say things like that:

The reason I bring this up is because our taxes are very high, but I get something for that money. It might not be the perfect system and there are lots of things about it that make me furious, but I do not see a reason why I would want to stop paying taxes.

That must be one heck of a feeling. Gives me hope for the future.

Re: The Future of Payments and Open Source Support

#22
post #2

TLDR; there are two problems with tip4commit: 1. The obvious, that they are collecting funds on behalf of other people's work and then keeping them when the funds go 'unclaimed' 2. Even if you do want to claim it, they don't make it easy, and for someone in a complicated tax country (like the author, Austria) there is almost no way he could accept the money without incurring some kind of risk. So basically when they…

In addition to tax issues, I'd also worry at least a bit about whether or not accepting money for your software might affect warranty disclaimers. I would not be surprised if in some jurisdictions it is harder for a commercial project to disclaim warranties, and for accepting money to cause a project to be classified as commercial.

Re: The Future of Payments and Open Source Support

#25
post #21

I envy this guy for living in a country where you can say things like that: The reason I bring this up is because our taxes are very high, but I get something for that money. It might not be the perfect system and there are lots of things about it that make me furious, but I do not see a reason why I would want to stop paying taxes. That must be one heck of a feeling. Gives me hope for the future.

That quote makes it clear he really doesn't understand where his tax money goes.

Re: The Future of Payments and Open Source Support

#26
post #20
post #2

TLDR; there are two problems with tip4commit: 1. The obvious, that they are collecting funds on behalf of other people's work and then keeping them when the funds go 'unclaimed' 2. Even if you do want to claim it, they don't make it easy, and for someone in a complicated tax country (like the author, Austria) there is almost no way he could accept the money without incurring some kind of risk. So basically when they…

I don't have any use for tip4commit, personally, and couldn't care less if it succeeds either way. I did read the GitHub site, though, and your case 1) is incorrect. They return the money if it isn't claimed.

Are you sure about that? They said they return it to "the project", but that in no way guarantees that the money will go to any developer.

The tip4commit people are clearly putting growth of their product above everything else, and that's generously assuming honorable intentions on their part. I couldn't see any clear strategy for getting money back to the original donors if a developer or project does not end up claiming the donation.

Re: The Future of Payments and Open Source Support

#27
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain why accepting tips is so complicated? What specific law means you cannot do it? Let me put this another way. If your friends give you money for your birthday, do you give it back to them and tell them you can't accept their gift because of tax and regulation? I doubt it! You may well declare the gifts on your tax return if it's big enough to bother with, but if Austria makes it hard to accept cash g…

Even supposing something was seriously wrong with Austrian law, it's a little presumptuous to expect everyone affected to try to fight that. Maybe they're already under careful watch by the national tax agency after getting audited because of some honest mistake the past year. Maybe they're under probation under a law you and I would call unjust, but triggering further law-enforcement attention lands them in jail reg…

Sure, of course. I haven't argued that he should be forced to accept tips against his will, that would be bizarre indeed.

Re: The Future of Payments and Open Source Support

#28
post #23

Sorry Armin/Mr Ronacher/Mitsuhiko but your "Bitcoin is Wild West" rant is unwarranted. Your problem has little to do with Bitcoin and all to do with the fact that a bunch of guys signed you up to their payment service without your consent.

I agree except for the fact that his concern with tip4commit is that it wouldn't exist if bitcoin wasn't available. The fact that bitcoin is what is making tip4commit to run without much regulation is Armin's main point.

Re: The Future of Payments and Open Source Support

#29
A recap of some important facts about tip4commit that weren't clear to me when this all started:

1) That they collect a 1% service fee on donations.

2) That they donate 1% of a project's pool for any given committer, which leads to this exponential decay where they never quite have 0 balance for any given project.

If enough donors use tip4commit, that is potentially a lot of bitcoin pennies that is just sloshing around their server.

Re: The Future of Payments and Open Source Support

#30

A recap of some important facts about tip4commit that weren't clear to me when this all started: 1) That they collect a 1% service fee on donations. 2) That they donate 1% of a project's pool for any given committer, which leads to this exponential decay where they never quite have 0 balance for any given project. If enough donors use tip4commit, that is potentially a lot of bitcoin pennies that is just sloshing arou…

3) unwanted / rejected / opted-out donations will be returned to the 'project pool' instead of the donor, it's unclear what happens in cases when a project has no participating developers (default), is itself opted out, or has all opted-out developers

4) donors are not informed that the projects they're supporting may not receive or accept donations this way

5) donors are actively lied to, see:

https://tip4commit.com/github/django/django

and

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8545377

has a django rep trying to opt them out of the program, there is no ambiguity whether they like, let alone want to or will receive donations this way

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