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Police allow car break-ins to become a Seattle growth industry

seattletimes.com

31–40 of 155 posts

Re: Police allow car break-ins to become a Seattle growth industry

#31

I really hate to see blind hatred for the police on HN. It's a tough goddamn job, people, made all the more so by political pressure to improve statistics. As pointed out elsewhere in this thread, police are forced to focus on serious crimes and solvable crimes and avoid minor and unsolvable crimes. Nobody wants it to work that way, but departments are hammered when they bring down crime stats. This story is pretty o…

Blind hatred for police seems to stem from experience. My father said once (after I had a particularly horrible, and unfair besting, by the police) that I had no respect for the police because I had never been in a situation where I had seen heroism, or been helped. The police have never stopped a robber from burgling my house, or stopped a violent crime from happening to me or anyone I know. The point is, that anecd…

By comparison, have you ever had a really positive experience with the dentist? Like cops, they're there to solve painful problems that cause very unhappy memories. Anything that compels you to visit the dentist (or the police to visit you) is not going to be associated with positive forces.

It's a tough job to recruit for, since so many people hate you:

1) Minorities hate you, since an overwhelming proportion of criminals emerge from our ranks and successful crime prevention means locking up our families and neighbors.

2) Liberals hate you because rappers do, and also everyone knows cops love to frame black people for crimes nobody committed, and if they were committed it was probably by a cis-male white patriarchy.

3) Conservatives hate you, because you're a public employee and an agent of the gubmint that wants to seize everyone's guns and force gay sex on God-fearing Americans.

Unsurprisingly, it's tough to recruit for the job. Plus, a huge number of cops need to go undercover and are thereby recruiting from cultures that don't share wealthier standards of etiquette. And even cops that don't come from rough backgrounds are forced to constantly interact with awful people who understand nothing but violence and rage. Mother Teresa would adopt thuggish behavior after five minutes on the force.

This isn't to say there aren't bad cops, but they're a tiny minority of all cops and largely reflect their communities. Isn't it weird how there are no bad Canadian or Swedish cops? When you aren't faced with hatred and violence all day, it's easier to be chill at traffic stops.

Re: Police allow car break-ins to become a Seattle growth industry

#32
post #16

Its a stereotypical urban vs suburban vs rural thing. Its only new in the sense of it being hip to live in urban areas. Always been this way. There has always been a different social contract between the cops and each social class. The cops have no idea why an urban person is calling them because if they're upper class they are rich so they don't care and a normal personal assistant isn't going to go all batman and h…

I agree with your point that that's the way things go in the city. I've lived in 4 major US cities in my life, and the cops respond to some things and don't respond to others. It's generally a numbers game. I also agree that in the suburbs and rural areas, the numbers work in the favor of the local police.

I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean in regards to the the ethnic / gang type way of fixing things in poor neighborhoods.

Also, I'm not sure if you've been to Seattle. I lived there for two years, recently. I wouldn't really call Seattle ethnic, gang-type, or poor.

Re: Police allow car break-ins to become a Seattle growth industry

#33
This is a silly op ed piece designed to generate outrage based on a single, biased, anecdotal incident. The Seattle media, from kiro to the stranger, has devolved to this on just about every issue. Whether the issue is crime, urban planning, or bike lanes its much easier to generate their pennies from outrage than actually reporting on a substantive issues. By reading these "stories" we do nothing but reinforce the negative feedback loop.

If single sourced anecdotal evidence is all we need I'll share mine: In the past two years my house has been broken in to once & prowled twice (that I know of). My car has been broken in to twice. My neighbors cars have been broken in to three times, at least. In every incident Seattle PD have been on scene within 7 to 15 minutes. Reports after the fact usually get a single car/officer. In progress has been multiple cars boxing in a sweeping the neighborhood. As I recall canine has come out twice to try and track perpetrators on foot. For the home burglary the responding officer spent about an hour walking the scene, taking photos, and trying to recover prints. Dispatch and responding officers have never been anything less than responsive, courteous, and professional. But that's not enticing link bait, is it?

Edit: The plethora of downvotes without comment are fun. Do you object to my characterization of seattle media as "link bait" or posting my own anecdotal incidents?

For context this is my neighborhood: http://spdblotter.seattle.gov/2014/10/24/shooting-suspect-in... http://spdblotter.seattle.gov/2014/10/18/police-arrest-man-f...

Re: Police allow car break-ins to become a Seattle growth industry

#34

I really hate to see blind hatred for the police on HN. It's a tough goddamn job, people, made all the more so by political pressure to improve statistics. As pointed out elsewhere in this thread, police are forced to focus on serious crimes and solvable crimes and avoid minor and unsolvable crimes. Nobody wants it to work that way, but departments are hammered when they bring down crime stats. This story is pretty o…

Wouldn't reducing petty crime lead to a reduction in overall crime? This is a serious question because I really don't know the answer. It could go both ways: (a) You catch small crooks, and they lead you to bigger fish. (b) You catch small crooks, and they can't do the job, so bigger fish recruits new small fish and the cycle begins again. (c) You catch small crooks, the big fish gets angry and starts to cause real s…

I think that it would. While Giuliani's "broken windows" theory was probably overshadowed by the fading of crack and the clarification of gang territory, it seems pretty conclusive that enforcing minor crimes leads to keeping felons off the streets. Enforcing subway turnstiles led to the capture of a TON of gun-carrying felons that would have otherwise gone on to rob, rape, and murder New Yorkers.

Unfortunately, liberals have somehow seized upon such measures as fascist. My parent comment has received at least five downvotes, for nothing more than saying cops are people too. Stop-and-frisk measures in New York, which were enormously valuable in stopping felons from their next murders, have become persona non grata since black people are disproportionately like to be found breaking parole, carrying weapons, or transporting drugs.

I consider myself liberal, but I'm really disappointed by our kneejerk responses to crime prevention. I think a lot of it stems from white guilt, a self-loathing for which police now serve as whipping boys.

Re: Police allow car break-ins to become a Seattle growth industry

#35
Washington is a conceal carry friendly state, I wonder how reporting an attempt at a citizens arrest would have changed the situation.

Here in Santa Cruz we have a very high property/lifestyle crime problem, thankfully the PD haven't given up, but the courts have made things here basically catch and release.

The story basically comes down to laziness on the part of the police. Seattle doesn't have the budget problems of Oakland where this same situation has basically been going on for a decade.

Re: Police allow car break-ins to become a Seattle growth industry

#36

I really hate to see blind hatred for the police on HN. It's a tough goddamn job, people, made all the more so by political pressure to improve statistics. As pointed out elsewhere in this thread, police are forced to focus on serious crimes and solvable crimes and avoid minor and unsolvable crimes. Nobody wants it to work that way, but departments are hammered when they bring down crime stats. This story is pretty o…

Perhaps you are mistaking a difference in political creed for hatred. I have no hatred, blind or otherwise, for police. My brother will graduate the NY Police Academy in two weeks. However, I envision and work toward a world where police in their current form don't exist at all.

On HN, you probably have a large proportion of people who believe that, like many government services, police will be successfully and peacefully deprecated by voluntary systems yet to be invented.

Re: Police allow car break-ins to become a Seattle growth industry

#37

I really hate to see blind hatred for the police on HN. It's a tough goddamn job, people, made all the more so by political pressure to improve statistics. As pointed out elsewhere in this thread, police are forced to focus on serious crimes and solvable crimes and avoid minor and unsolvable crimes. Nobody wants it to work that way, but departments are hammered when they bring down crime stats. This story is pretty o…

> blind hatred for the police

Reactions to a detailed first person account are "blind"? What, pray tell, is your standard of acceptable sources for a debate?

> I understand why cops are leery of having citizens pursue and enforce vigilante justice.

1. The victim of theft did not "enforce vigilante justice" even when the police refused to help him.

2. The victim of theft did not propose enforcing vigilante justice at any point in the process. All of his suggestions involved letting the police do their job while he assisted from a distance.

What are you trying to say? Because it sounds like you're accusing this guy of doing something he didn't do in order to avoid acknowledging that there is a problem.

> This could EASILY have led to a shootout.

Half of a policeman's duties could lead to shootouts. Should police everywhere avoid confronting criminals because such confrontations could lead to a shootout? No -- that would be ridiculous. Deciding that you aren't going to enforce petty theft laws because the cost/benefit is off is effectively equivalent to making petty theft legal. Even if this petty theft isn't important, you surely must acknowledge the importance of discouraging petty theft in general and the unsuitability of the "eh, not worth it" attitude for achieving that goal. The need for enforcement follows.

> I'd rather give [the police] the benefit of the doubt

It's very easy to pretend there isn't a problem when it doesn't affect you.

Re: Police allow car break-ins to become a Seattle growth industry

#38
post #24

Take care of the small stuff and the big stuff will take care of itself. The broken windows theory is a criminological theory of the norm-setting and signaling effect of urban disorder and vandalism on additional crime and anti-social behavior. The theory states that maintaining and monitoring urban environments in a well-ordered condition may stop further vandalism and escalation into more serious crime[1]. From the…

Just yesterday in the civic center area here in SF I'm getting a sandwich and this mentally ill (or really high, or both) bum lady walks into the shop and proceeds to howl at the top of her lungs for 10 minutes, dance around the shop, kick down a bunch of seats. Right next to her is a hole in the wall punched by some other mentally infirm person that same day.

Nothing. The staff is used to it, I'm used to it, the other patrons are used to it, we just let them do their thing and hope they don't throw anything at us in the process. This is right on Market St, you'd think the city would be proud of its downtown.

What am I supposed to do as a resident? I'm not a cop, I'm not a lawyer, I'm not a psychiatrist, I can't fix this. I'm just a guy who gives away something like half of his income in taxes and it's not clear what's happening to all that cash. If we're going to keep this place in an embarrassing state, I would at least like some of my money back.

Re: Police allow car break-ins to become a Seattle growth industry

#39
post #3

This is the flip side of the new powers granted to police under laws such as the Patriot Act. Yes, they have more power than ever before to spy on you. No, they won't arrest criminals, even after you have tracked down the criminals yourself. The government needs expanded powers so it can spy on you, not the criminals. Certain classes of criminals are high profile (drug dealers!) and there is a certain prestige in get…

> the new powers granted to police under laws such as the Patriot Act. Yes, they have more power than ever before to spy on you. No, they won't arrest criminals, even after you have tracked down the criminals yourself. The government needs expanded powers so it can spy on you, not the criminal

Surely it's possible to use the same database collecting info on Patriot Act violations to sift through and report on petty crimes also, even predict where and to/by whom they might happen? If the police won't do it then surely there's someone out there who could hack into the machines running the algorithms for such terrorism and high profile crime prediction to do the same for car breakins?

Re: Police allow car break-ins to become a Seattle growth industry

#40

I really hate to see blind hatred for the police on HN. It's a tough goddamn job, people, made all the more so by political pressure to improve statistics. As pointed out elsewhere in this thread, police are forced to focus on serious crimes and solvable crimes and avoid minor and unsolvable crimes. Nobody wants it to work that way, but departments are hammered when they bring down crime stats. This story is pretty o…

It's true, though. They are not legally obliged to help you: http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/04-278.ZS.html
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