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Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

theguardian.com

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Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#181

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

smm2000 wrote: post #129
yen223 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "For fresh grad though, if they quit earlier than 18 months, they have to pay almost a year of their salary, which seems reasonable when there are trainings when they joined the company." Even by Malaysian standards this is just ridiculous. The tech scene in Malaysia is growing - people really shouldn't have to put up with this nonsense.

Eh, happens even to the best companies in US. Microsoft employment agreement stipulates that if you quit earlier than one year, you have to pay back all relocation expenses (visas, temporary housing, etc). Easily tens of thousands of dollars.

That's a completely different scenario.

I have been in that situation and it was made crystal clear by the documents that I was signing that I was on the hook for a big chunk o' cash (signing bonus + relocation costs to move me halfway across the country) if I decided to leave before a year was up. That's a situation I willingly entered into, having many alternate choices. This wasn't something that was just thrust on me the day I showed up at the new job; I knew about it before I turned in my notice at the old one.

Many (most?) of the people in this situation don't have that luxury of choice and freedom.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#182

Post by acveilleux »

pmorici wrote: post #134
reduce wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"For fresh grad though, if they quit earlier than 18 months, they have to pay almost a year of their salary, which seems reasonable when there are trainings when they joined the company." No, that is not ever reasonable anywhere in any situation. May be typical, but not reasonable.

The US government does the same thing to the American students they give "CyberCorps" scholarships to. They have an obligation to remain in government jobs for the same number of years that they received the scholarship for and if they want to leave early they have to repay the scholarship. https://www.sfs.opm.gov/

Sort of... But not the same, especially when the training is glorified or nonexistent in the case of the body shops. In the go ernment case, there's a formula to calculate balance owed which is for a recognized form of education that is marketable and tangible.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#183

Post by uberwach »

reduce wrote: post #119
uberwach wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have data for these claims? Here in Germany most women prefer career paths that are paid worse than IT modulo medicine. Also, IT is not considered low-class, maybe because there are many academics in IT.

In the US it's considered low status because it's considered to have questionable long-term value, due to potential future outsourcing. He's absolutely right. In the US, software development has always, until perhaps very recently, been considered a very low status career and with low long-term potential. That is, versus one of the classic engineering or medical jobs. By the way, in the US, IT generally means support…

Interesting perspective, I would have expected the image of software professionals in the US to be way better due to companies such as Google or Apple.

In terms of long-term potential medicine specialists are better off here, but it is not as extreme as in NA. If you are a top-tier IT freelancer, then you can easily compete with them.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#184

Post by praneshp »

HaseebR7 wrote: post #8

WOW, this is scary. I'm from India and thinking of getting my MS in CS next year. I hope i don't end up like this.

You'll be fine. Most of the time, especially if you get a MS in CS, you'll be hired directly by the employer (Apple, MS, Yahoo et al). You'll probably get a higher salary than a contractor at your level (because the staffing company doesn't eat into it). You have all the problems that comes with a H1B (like a short grace period in case you're laid off, etc), but that will be all.

SOME of these people willingly get into these situations because living in the US for a while improves their social standing (for marriage, dowry, etc) a lot. Others believe in the American dream and come here at any cost and fall into that trap. There is a large group that just cares about getting to the US, and then thinks the salary plus Amway will make them rich.

I did a MS in CS, and got a few jobs (mostly big corps, one of them Cisco, all of which offered to sponsor H1B). I now hate the bay area and its really low quality of life and am tied here only because I love my job. Just keep aiming for excellence, instead of hook or crook, that will mostly help you. The US visa situation is screwed up though, you'll find a lot of articles about it here on HN.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#185

Post by eli_gottlieb »

flyinglizard wrote: post #172
here_you_go wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Because a) it's profitable, and b) they can. That's all, really. Excessive money (== power == domination of your peers) corrupts everybody . We don't need any new studies to prove this. That's the sick part of our economic culture - the "natural" tendency of concentration of money/power (instead of spreading it as equally as possible).

Efficiency. Its not Tim Cook's or any middle manager's personal money, it's the money of the shareholders. Besides, overpaying drives all salaries up and can spark a wage war between companies that only benefits the employees.

>Besides, overpaying drives all salaries up and can spark a wage war between companies that only benefits the employees.

Sounds like a great idea!

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#187

Post by infinite8s »

judk wrote: post #139
usbreply wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typically the employee's father (or some similarly close relative) will sign a legal agreement with the employer promising to pay back the employee's wages if the employee disappears. (Legally I believe this is similar to a guarantor for a bank loan.) Though this probably won't stand up in court, most employees wouldn't risk putting their own father through the trouble of finding out.

That's a fascinating example of how capitalism exploits a broken traditional culture.

Why is that a "broken traditional culture"?

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#188

Post by geebee »

xxcode wrote: post #135
kabdib wrote: post #118

At a couple of companies I was at, an Indian jobs shop had somehow gotten their mitts into our HR types and we were indundated with candidates who showed up with books like "Learn Java in 12 hours" or "Windows Device Drivers for N00bs" under their arms. Very junior types, without exception. Our interview questions were fed back, and I had to change them a fair amount. Not a problem. "The guy at XYZZY will ask about h…

I am not sure if your response is relevant to the article, but I felt that there is some level of superiority complex that you and many fellow humans posses (in this case, about your superior knowledge and intellect). Perhaps the biggest difference between you and someone applying for the job through the h1b visa program was that they were born in a different set of circumstances than you were. They were likely born…

I admire and support immigrants who wish to better their lives. But if (as you state) the people receiving these work visas aren't especially skilled or educated, why treat them differently from the 1.2+ million immigrants who come freely to the US every year? Why not tell employers who are looking for IT help that they're free to hire anyone currently authorized to work in the US just like every other segment of the economy?

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#189

Post by vinceguidry »

walshemj wrote: post #130
reduce wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"For fresh grad though, if they quit earlier than 18 months, they have to pay almost a year of their salary, which seems reasonable when there are trainings when they joined the company." No, that is not ever reasonable anywhere in any situation. May be typical, but not reasonable.

That is a form of debt slavery and violates their human rights in a number of ways

Could you describe what rights are being violated and the framework in which the rights are couched? I certainly agree that the practice is wrong, but I was unaware of the existence of that degree of specificity in currently-accepted definitions of human rights. Is there a body of case law that is supposed to aid in the interpretation of questions like what exactly constitutes slavery?

The UHDR states that individuals should be free from discrimination, I have no idea what that's supposed to mean when applied universally.

I don't even know what a 'right' is in this context. Are we speaking in the same sense as they are defined in the US Constitution, that governments must respect the laws but private enterprises do not? Or is it meant in a stronger sense, that private enterprises must do so as well, or even individuals? If the latter, how are we supposed to interpret the prohibition against violating a person's free speech rights?

> Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms.

Does this mean that we are now setting education policy across the whole Earth? How strong is this policy supposed to be? Does one class on human rights during secondary school satisfy the requirement?

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#190

Post by walshemj »

vinceguidry wrote: post #189
walshemj wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a form of debt slavery and violates their human rights in a number of ways

Could you describe what rights are being violated and the framework in which the rights are couched? I certainly agree that the practice is wrong, but I was unaware of the existence of that degree of specificity in currently-accepted definitions of human rights. Is there a body of case law that is supposed to aid in the interpretation of questions like what exactly constitutes slavery? The UHDR states that individual…

I was referring to the UN UDR

Article 4

No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.

Article 23

(1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment. •(2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work. •(3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection. •(4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

And if you just want to limit to just to the US constitution the 13th amendment

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