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Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

theguardian.com

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Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#61

Post by lotsofmangos »

induscreep wrote: post #50
crdoconnor wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Individual wages are always lower, but the following can and often do end up ballooning the overall cost of the venture: * Lower quality net result (& higher support costs). * Additional headcount * Higher coordination costs (e.g. paying these bloodsuckers) The point is that it goes ahead even when it makes no financial sense even 5-6 years out because management prefers a pliant, docile, easily controlled workforce.

> management prefers a pliant, docile, easily controlled workforce I am trying to understand why, and what the incentive is. If the overall cost balloons up, what is it about a docile workforce that is so lucrative to these companies? Ability to pay lower wages? Not having to search for replacement employees every now and then?

The incentive is very simple. - http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/myl/ldc/llog/DilbertEvilHR....

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#62

Post by bbarn »

I think this is going to continue in some shape, even if it doesn't necessarily look like this, because these companies are going to India to pay less money, bottom line. Add in a large pool of people wanting to make the move, and someone will always be willing to do it for the types of contracts we're talking about here.

As has been pointed out many times here on HN, there is no shortage of qualified dev/it talent in the US. There is a surplus of companies with bad jobs that don't want to pay market rate, and look at these brokers as risk mitigation strategies to fill the head count someone said they needed.

When cutting costs is your motivation, people have a strong tendency to get hurt.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#64

Post by WildUtah »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #58
usernamepc wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two reasons (both sort of hard to fix) for why contracting is screwed up. 1. Co-employment- Large companies like Google or Apple would love to hire contractors directly but are very scared of being sued by contractors that can claim they were actually employees-not contractors because of the unclear rules around who is/is not an employee. So they introduce a staffing agency in between to become the 'employe…

>How to Fix- Labor laws would need to change, making it clear to companies how they can hire contractors without becoming liable to be held as employers. Except that the entire reason these laws exist is because tech companies have been caught using people as contractors permanently , "laying them off" on a consistent seasonable basis, and then "rehiring" them again as "contractors". A permanently-employed worker nee…

What's wrong with that? Lots of people love working seasonally. Teachers, fishermen, hospitality workers, and forest rangers can work seasonally. Why should programmers be denied the privilege by law?

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#65

Post by usernamepc »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #58
usernamepc wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two reasons (both sort of hard to fix) for why contracting is screwed up. 1. Co-employment- Large companies like Google or Apple would love to hire contractors directly but are very scared of being sued by contractors that can claim they were actually employees-not contractors because of the unclear rules around who is/is not an employee. So they introduce a staffing agency in between to become the 'employe…

>How to Fix- Labor laws would need to change, making it clear to companies how they can hire contractors without becoming liable to be held as employers. Except that the entire reason these laws exist is because tech companies have been caught using people as contractors permanently , "laying them off" on a consistent seasonable basis, and then "rehiring" them again as "contractors". A permanently-employed worker nee…

I believe these laws were first put in place to prevent factory owners from exploiting poorly paid workers- and weren't really meant for highly paid tech workers. The problem with requiring companies to hire everyone as employees is exactly the reason companies try to find ways to dodge it in my opinion. If the Govt has a problem collecting taxes from contractors that is a different problem and should be addressed separately.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#66

Post by yen223 »

fadzlan wrote: post #37

Worked with one big Indian company here in Malaysia last time and I see intimidation as common means of dealing with employees. Unfortunately, it doesn't really work well here, since most of people have a lot of choices moving around. I've been pushed to accept work that has a minimum wage in a different country, despite my experience and the fact I can't possibly survive with my family there. I've had my resume jack…

> "For fresh grad though, if they quit earlier than 18 months, they have to pay almost a year of their salary, which seems reasonable when there are trainings when they joined the company."

Even by Malaysian standards this is just ridiculous. The tech scene in Malaysia is growing - people really shouldn't have to put up with this nonsense.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#67

Post by bdevani »

drawkbox wrote: post #60
selmnoo wrote: post #3

This bullying persists at the bottom of a complex system that supplies workers to some of America’s richest and most successful companies, such as Cisco Systems, Verizon and Apple. I find this extremely confusing, why companies like Facebook and Apple and others in SV, that're sitting on an unbelievable shitload of cash take filthy shortcuts like this, screw the very people that work for them so badly. I mean, seriou…

> screw the very people that work for them so badly Actually, it is something they probably strive for if they would also do other highly illegal/unethical practices: http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/11/technology/silicon-valley-po... The 'unbelievable shitload of cash' tends to make little power hungry kings.

These little power hungry kings are the monsters we made. These kings have one job and just one job, keep raising the stock price.

One of the quickest way to get liquid, meet your projections and so on, is to liquidate jobs. Get all that $$ back on the books. 10 ppl isn't just (assuming they make 100k each) 1m, its also the training and benefits, and social security, health 401k..etc.

A few dips in the stock price == dethronement, possibly disinterest and the looming specter of irrelevance/demise.

All corporations are about profit. All stockholders want them to be. All people, who often are also stockholders, find this at odds with being a reasonable, nurturing workplace

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#68

Post by bdevani »

yen223 wrote: post #66
fadzlan wrote: post #37

Worked with one big Indian company here in Malaysia last time and I see intimidation as common means of dealing with employees. Unfortunately, it doesn't really work well here, since most of people have a lot of choices moving around. I've been pushed to accept work that has a minimum wage in a different country, despite my experience and the fact I can't possibly survive with my family there. I've had my resume jack…

> "For fresh grad though, if they quit earlier than 18 months, they have to pay almost a year of their salary, which seems reasonable when there are trainings when they joined the company." Even by Malaysian standards this is just ridiculous. The tech scene in Malaysia is growing - people really shouldn't have to put up with this nonsense.

This is de rigor in India. Keep a job for less than a year, you pay the company. Its the most bizarre thing I've heard. Sure, many companies here will ask for their signing bonus back if you quit early into this job, but this is literally garnishing one's wages.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#69

Post by lotsofmangos »

WildUtah wrote: post #64
eli_gottlieb wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How to Fix- Labor laws would need to change, making it clear to companies how they can hire contractors without becoming liable to be held as employers. Except that the entire reason these laws exist is because tech companies have been caught using people as contractors permanently , "laying them off" on a consistent seasonable basis, and then "rehiring" them again as "contractors". A permanently-employed worker nee…

What's wrong with that? Lots of people love working seasonally. Teachers, fishermen, hospitality workers, and forest rangers can work seasonally. Why should programmers be denied the privilege by law?

Is common in games, what has happened to people I know is they get a job and then build the mechanics of a game, they then get fired while the art is discussed and worked on, then rehired to finish the work as nobody else knows how it fits together anyway.
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