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Friends Don't Let Friends Clap on One and Three: A Backbeat Clapping Study

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Re: Friends Don't Let Friends Clap on One and Three: A Backbeat Clapping Study

#31

Post by dnautics »

thangalin wrote: post #21
DanBC wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I play the Lavender Coffin track. I listen to it carefully. I replay it and try to clap on the claps. I fail. I try again. I still fail. I listen to the song again. I replay the track, but this time try to tap my finger (which is easier than clapping) and I still fail. Will it get easier or am I just "beatdeaf"? (Here I can clearly hear the 1 2 3 4, and the claps, but I just cannot match the claps on 2 and 4.)

Try these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REzz-My2PoI#t=100 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Joo90ZWrUkU#t=20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8Tiz6INF7I It takes practice. Newer dancers clap on 1 & 3 until they learn. Sometimes all it takes is for someone to clap quite loudly (almost passively-aggressively so) on the 2 & 4 for the rest of the people to shift over.

Oh man, I once went to (unnamed city) and everyone was clapping on 1 & 3, so I aggressively clapped on 2 & 4. It wasn't enough.

Re: Friends Don't Let Friends Clap on One and Three: A Backbeat Clapping Study

#32

Post by kissickas »

andrewchoi wrote: post #23
spenuke wrote: post #3

Duke Ellington routinely gave his audiences a lesson in his inimitable style: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPcZ5ex2t-g Harry Connick Jr. didn't bother educating his European audience with any explanation. He simply skips a beat, and then they're clapping on 2 and 4. It happens after the first sung chorus. You can see the drummer raise his hands in joy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD3iaURppQw And, of course, th…

The switch happens around the 0:40 mark, for those who may have thought that they missed it (as I almost did)

I think he did it more towards 0:36, just after the verse.

Edit: after reading the comments it seems everyone agrees with you... for some reason I'm able to count the claps on 2 and 4 before then, though.

Re: Friends Don't Let Friends Clap on One and Three: A Backbeat Clapping Study

#33

Post by andrewchoi »

kissickas wrote: post #32
andrewchoi wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The switch happens around the 0:40 mark, for those who may have thought that they missed it (as I almost did)

I think he did it more towards 0:36, just after the verse. Edit: after reading the comments it seems everyone agrees with you... for some reason I'm able to count the claps on 2 and 4 before then, though.

I was under the impression that it happens at 0:40, when he pulls the left hand off the stride pattern. When it comes back in, the beat is corrected.

Re: Friends Don't Let Friends Clap on One and Three: A Backbeat Clapping Study

#34

Post by zaius »

Links to the songs discussed:

* Billie Jean - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi_XLOBDo_Y

* Impeach the President - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqbEsS5kFb8

* Take me to the Mardi Gras - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaoCsmFDLcY

* The Funky Drummer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNP8tbDMZNE

* Amen Brother - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxZuq57_bYM

Re: Friends Don't Let Friends Clap on One and Three: A Backbeat Clapping Study

#36

Post by DonPellegrino »

jldugger wrote: post #29
protonfish wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know how the rhythm to "We Will Rock You" by Queen goes Stomp Stomp Clap, Stomp Stomp Clap The "Claps" are on 2 and 4, the first stomps of the pairs are on 1 and 3. Now imagine some boob wearing his sunglasses like a hat and a popped collar starts clapping on 1 and 3: Stomp Stomp Clap, Stomp Stomp Clap Clap Clap That'd be annoying. The looks on Harry Connick Jr.'s face before he fixes the clapping tell it all.

IMO, that's 3/4 time. Just because it's confusing.

No it's not, the "stomps" are halves.

Re: Friends Don't Let Friends Clap on One and Three: A Backbeat Clapping Study

#37

Post by powrtoch »

thornofmight wrote: post #20

"We can determine the “metric salience” of each event in a rhythmic pattern by“recursively breaking down a musical pattern (with an initially specified length)into subpatterns of equal length.” The more subdivisions it takes to reach a given event , the lower its metrical salience. In 4/4 time, the downbeat is themost salient position, followed by beat three. It would seem natural to clap onthe strongest, most salient…

Roughly, a sound that happens during some measure of music, or an arbitrary point during that duration.

Imagine folding a strip of paper exactly in half. Now you have a crease at the middle of it. If you fold it again, you have a couple more creases at the 1/4 and 3/4 points. The above quote is talking about the same thing, but with a length of time instead of a strip of paper. The more folds you have to make in order to put a crease at a certain point (event), the less salient it is.

Hope that's helpful.

Re: Friends Don't Let Friends Clap on One and Three: A Backbeat Clapping Study

#38

Post by munificent »

jldugger wrote: post #29
protonfish wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know how the rhythm to "We Will Rock You" by Queen goes Stomp Stomp Clap, Stomp Stomp Clap The "Claps" are on 2 and 4, the first stomps of the pairs are on 1 and 3. Now imagine some boob wearing his sunglasses like a hat and a popped collar starts clapping on 1 and 3: Stomp Stomp Clap, Stomp Stomp Clap Clap Clap That'd be annoying. The looks on Harry Connick Jr.'s face before he fixes the clapping tell it all.

IMO, that's 3/4 time. Just because it's confusing.

It would be 3/4 without the comma. It's:

    Stomp Stomp Clap  Stomp Stomp Clap
Not:

    Stomp Stomp Clap Stomp Stomp Clap

Re: Friends Don't Let Friends Clap on One and Three: A Backbeat Clapping Study

#39

Post by Scalestein »

tmm wrote: post #7
spenuke wrote: post #3

Duke Ellington routinely gave his audiences a lesson in his inimitable style: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPcZ5ex2t-g Harry Connick Jr. didn't bother educating his European audience with any explanation. He simply skips a beat, and then they're clapping on 2 and 4. It happens after the first sung chorus. You can see the drummer raise his hands in joy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD3iaURppQw And, of course, th…

How can you tell he skips a beat? Or for that matter the difference between beats 1 and 3 vs 2 and 4? Music is such a mystery to me. :/

I'm gonna try to explain this as best I can through text which is pretty difficult but we'll see how it goes.

We can identify beat 1 by listening to where Harry generally starts his vocal phrases. Right a the beginning he sings "Take me home, I'd love to be invited". The words "take" and "i'd" are both on beat 1. Now we have our reference. Count along while listening now if you'd like, it's fun!

The beat switch happens around 0:43 but if we listen to the solo section in general we can dissect it. He plays a repeating bass line with his left hand throughout. It is very audible from 0:50-0:53. He is doing some fancy work in the higher register but the bass line is anchoring it. There is a strong beat in this bass line. You can probably hear it naturally. It is the third note he plays in the sequence. This third note is again beat 1.

The bass line leads into beat 1 like so: "and-a-ONE". Sing along in your head. Now sing along with the bass line as he goes into his solo. You'll notice that right around 0:39 he stops playing the bass line for a moment. This is where he 'corrects' the audience. After this point the "and-a-ONE" of the bass line is no longing in unison with the clapping. If you kept your count going you'll find that it no longer matches the bass line. After he does this the clapping is now on the TWO and FOUR relative to the bass line.

Hope this helps some people. It's pretty damn cool what he did, and so smooth!

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